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Thread ID: 62567	2005-10-12 01:40:00	Computer upgrade assistance for me.	ojibwa (8968)	Press F1

Post ID	Timestamp	Content	User
395414	2005-10-12 01:40:00	I need a motherboard that will support the card I've now (GeForce 6600GT AGP 8x 256Mb) and that has PCI-E slots for future upgrades. (mobo must support socket 939 AMD64 processors) At least 5 expansion bays for graphics card, internet card, etc. (more is better) CPU, GPU, and RAM must work with motherboard. Sli for AGP and/or PCI-E? Will the processor, mobo, or ram cause a significant boost in system performance? (how much for each component?) So looking at my specs, let me know if you need anything else to make choices on upgrades. What follows is data of my current setup collected using the free program EVEREST: Motherboard Properties Motherboard ID = 02/26/2003-i845G-W627-6A69VM4WC-00 Motherboard Name = MSI MS-6577 Motherboard Manufacturer Company Name = Micro-Star International AGP Status = Enabled AGP Device = nVIDIA 6600GT 256MB Supported AGP Speeds = 1x, 2x, 4x Current AGP Speed = 4x OS Name = Microsoft Windows XP Professional OS Service Pack = Service Pack 2 CPU Type = Intel Pentium 4A, 2800 MHz (21 x 133) CPUID CPU Name = Intel(R) Pentium(R) 4 CPU 2.80GHz Sensor Type = Winbond W83627HF (ISA 290h) Harddrive = WDC WD1200BB-60CJA1 (111 GB) NTSF Graphics Card = nVIDIA GeForce 6600 AGP GPU Code Name = NV43AGP Monitor Name = Plug and Play Monitor [NoDB] Model = hp f70 Max. Visible Display Size = 34cm x 27cm (17.1") [1280x1024] Memory Slots DRAM Slot #1 = 512 MB (DDR SDRAM) DRAM Slot #2 = 512 MB (DDR SDRAM) Ram (Module Name) = Infineon 64D64320GU6B Module Size = 512 MB (2 rows, 4 banks) Module Type = Unbuffered Memory Type = DDR SDRAM Memory Speed = PC2700 (166 MHz) Module Width = 64 bit Bios = Phoenix-Award BIOS v6.00PG Hewlett Packard Company I was also wondering what quality my CD/DVD drives are. Every computer we've had has had issues with the CD drive. This is the only DVD drive we've had and it doesn't burn properly, reads fine though. I can't be certain because I don't know if it's possible, but one of our games may have been damaged to the point of being unusable by the CD drive itself! :stare: I don't know how true that theory is though. Optical Drive Properties Device Description = HP DVD Writer 300n Manufacturer = HP Device Type = DVD+RW Speed = DVD:4x/2.4x/8x, CD:16x/10x/40x Optical Drive Properties Device Description = MITSUMI CD-ROM FX48++W Manufacturer = Mitsumi Device Type = CD-ROM Speed = ? (exactly as shown) Device Manufacturer Company Name = Mitsumi Electric Co., Ltd. Product Information = www.mitsumi.co.jp In the end I want RAM that will get the most out of the CPU, that will get the most out of the Mobo, that will get the most out of the GPU, each thing working to have every other component producing the best performance it can. Forgot to add what parts I will be upgrading with :P (Processor) AMD Athlon 64 3000+ Venice 1GHz FSB 512KB L2 Cache Socket 939 Processor - Retail www.newegg.com How much more performance will this processor have hover my old one? Is it worth it or should I wait until something like 3500+ becomes cheap? (Motherboard) ASUS SK8N NVIDIA nForce3 Pro 150 Motherboard - New ! cgi.ebay.ca eZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem This might be what I'm looking for, just wanted to provide a general example of what might work, would be better if you can come up with a real solution though. For whichever mobo you choose, please make sure the processor (or whichever processor you reccomend) is supported by it, and that the RAM is optimal for that setup (at least 1 gig [2sticks?]).	ojibwa (8968)
395415	2005-10-12 01:58:00	It depends on how much you want to spend / or can afford . Different shops have different prices . There's like ASUS / Gigabyte 939 mobos . And ASUS / Benq / Liteon DVD writers . They'll be better than HP ones, and faster . Where are u?? In NZ, or somewhere else?	Speedy Gonzales (78)
395416	2005-10-12 02:44:00	I live in Canada for your knowledge, at the bottom of my post is the processor which I'm thinking of getting. Is that processor going to have a significant effect on my system? The reason I'm getting a mobo is for the processor. And I found out that I have to also get the right RAM to match the mobo. And so what I want to do is find all the parts that will make every other part work the most efficiently they can. One thing I'm having trouble with is figuring out this FSB (Front Side Bus) deal. Something about matching RAM speed with the FSB of your mobo or processor (not sure which). I don't want to have any "bottlenecks" so to speak, and possibly make the system advanced enough that If I get a significantly better video card (PCI-E 16x capabiliy, SLI?, etc.) that I won't have to buy any more parts for a few years at least.	ojibwa (8968)
395417	2005-10-12 02:45:00	>>I need a motherboard that will support the card I've now (GeForce 6600GT AGP 8x 256Mb) and that has PCI-E slots for future upgrades . You can't . They have one or the other - not both . >>At least 5 expansion bays for graphics card, internet card, etc . (more is better) Most of the new PCI-E have only 3 normal PCI slots - the rest are PCI x1 or PCI x 4 . >>Sli for AGP and/or PCI-E? There is no SLI for AGP . >>I was also wondering what quality my CD/DVD drives are . Awful . >>Forgot to add what parts I will be upgrading with :P (Processor) AMD Athlon 64 3000+ Venice 1GHz FSB 512KB L2 Cache Socket 939 Processor - Retail How much more performance will this processor have hover my old one? Is it worth it or should I wait until something like 3500+ becomes cheap? No, wait until either the dual cores are cheaper or wait for Socket M2 . >>(Motherboard) ASUS SK8N NVIDIA nForce3 Pro 150 Motherboard Nope, not worth it - its only Nforce 3 anyway .	pctek (84)
395418	2005-10-12 03:48:00	So what you're saying is that If I want PCI-E and a new processor that's worth the money->performance that I should 1. wait until dual core AMD 64-bit processors are about the same price as the processor I am considering atm 2. will have to also get a PCI-E graphics card if I want it to work with the mobo? I also don't know what that means in regard to any other parts if I change from AGP. Will I need a new internet card? anything else that's important? Sounds like I should wait a couple years almost.	ojibwa (8968)
395419	2005-10-12 05:50:00	So what you're saying is that If I want PCI-E and a new processor that's worth the money->performance that I should 1. wait until dual core AMD 64-bit processors are about the same price as the processor I am considering atm 2. will have to also get a PCI-E graphics card if I want it to work with the mobo? I also don't know what that means in regard to any other parts if I change from AGP. Will I need a new internet card? anything else that's important? Sounds like I should wait a couple years almost. Nope, there will be some price drops at the end of the year on the current stuff. You need (if doing it now): A motherboard with PCI-Express, preferably Socket 939 so it takes an Athlon CPU which is better for gaming. I'd go AMD Athlon 64 3500+ right now. (Socket 939 of course) The board will take DDR400 - NOT DDR-2 stuff. If you use say an Asus board (most of them anyway) it will have 2 ram slots that are dual channel. Slight performance boost in that case - so get 2 pieces of ram and put them in the dual channel slots (they are colour coded). Any hard drive. Any modem. Any sound card. Any DVD/CD. Well, sticking to the good brands though. You should make sure the motherboard is PCI-Express and get a decent PCI-E graphics card. Minimum 6600GT, or better - X800Pro. Or higher if you can stretch your budget.	pctek (84)
395420	2005-10-12 09:16:00	It sounds like you have some knowledge of parts, first thing what is this socket M2 you speak of? What motherboard do you reccomend for price? and then what cpu, gpu, and whatever else match it? Is the 3000+ not duel core (All socket 939 processors are from what I know)? I'm guessing you're saying it's not worth it because it's only .2Ghz faster than my current one, and wouldn't justify the performance->price point. If a mobo that supports DDR-2 RAM is going to be significantly better than one that supports DDR400 (and by which their effect will be useful in conjunction of the other parts. [cpu, gpu]) then I would gladely wait until I can get that. The price of the parts I was going to get originally are as follows: AMD 64-bit processor (3000+) = $146 USD Motherboard = the one I referenced with sold for about $110 USD A computer case so the mobo would fit = $35 USD And now it sounds like I would need a new card = $200+ ? Totalling around $500. When we see the next price drop, what will the parts you suggest me buying cost? (I'm guessing buying any parts that will improve my current AGP setup is not going to be worth it in any way)	ojibwa (8968)
395421	2005-10-12 10:56:00	New developments. I was surfing around and found this link on the TBREAK.COM forums: www.tbreak.com Link originated from this thread: www.tbreak.com Date : October 2, 2005 | Author : Abbas Jaffarali ASRock 939Dual-SATA2 "We like surprises. And that’s exactly what we got when we looked at ULi’s M1695 chipset a few weeks ago. Not only did it perform adequately in benchmarks, but it features both- AGP 8X and PCI-E x16 interfaces without sacrificing performance. Even better was the fact that it costs less than nVidia's solutions. Today, we take a look at one of the first retail boards based on this chipset- the Asrock 939Dual-SATA2 priced at approximated $75." "Expansion wise, besides the AGP 8X and PCI-E x16 slots, the 939Dual features a PCI-E x1 slot as well as three 32-bit PCI slots which should be sufficient for all your expansion needs. An interesting slot labeled “future CPU Port” sits above the PCI-E x16 slot and from the looks of it, might be able to add a card that can take a Socket 940 CPU in the future." "Lets start with the obvious- based on the ULi M1695 chipset, this is the first retail board we’ve seen that supports PCI-E x16 and AGP 8x interfaces at their full speeds. Its an ideal solution for someone who has invested into their graphics cards and wants to use new technologies along with having the option of upgrading their graphics card to PCI-E x16 later on." "One funny thing in the BIOS is the option to enable HyperThreading- maybe it’s a super secret plan that AMD is working on that we’re not aware of yet." "Overclocking options are reasonable- the CPU multiplier ratio can be changed while FSB speeds of upto 400MHz can be selected. ASRock provides with voltage options for both the CPU and while the VCore can be selected upto 1.350V, the memory voltage options are simply labelled as Low, Standard or High." "If there was one area where we weren’t impressed with, it would be overclocking. We barely managed to get this board to run stably at 220MHz FSB which is quite a bit lower to 240-260MHz we reach on almost any nForce4 boards. But then again, this is not targeted as an enthusiast product." That's last quote I don't think is such a big deal for me. I'm thinking the mobo wil be a rather large boost to my system regardless of whether it's 220 to 260Mhz FSB. Just the fact that this supports AGP 8x and PCI-E is a godsend! Maybe they will make cheaper versions of this, or with better FSB, but from the sounds of it I can get this and still use the card I've, and because of how cheap it's get a 3500+ or better processor; I won't have to wait more than a month to get these parts if this'll work. What a find :) Looks like they used DDR400 RAM in the benchmark, not sure If that means that's the best it'll use. Conclusion "To sum it up, the ASRock 939Dual-SATA2 has a decent set of features supporting the 939 pin based Athlon64/Dual Core CPUs with dual channel memory controller as well as most of the new technologies like SATA/SATA2 and USB 2.0. You also get 7.1 channel audio and a 10/100 Network interface which is fine. Of course, the biggest feature of this board is support for AGP 8X and PCI-E x16 cards that can be utilized independent of each other or simultaneously." Does that mean I can use my 6600GT with a super (by todays standard) ATI/nVIDIA GPU? 7800GTX or X1800XT "Of course, the biggest feature of this board is support for AGP 8X and PCI-E x16 cards that can be utilized independent of each other or simultaneously." Wicked if that's so. Probably more like, choose AGP (SLI?) or PCI-E (SLI?), or choose one AGP and one PCI-E. "As you saw from the numbers in the previous pages, the ASRock 939Dual is slightly slower than the nForce4 based motherboards. It also doesn’t overclock as well. But then again, this board is not necessarily intended for extreme users and enthusiasts- given its price range. At approximately $75, its certainly on the lesser side of pricing, however, there are nForce4 based boards that you could find in that price range as well." "So who is this board good for? Mainly for people that have invested into their AGP based graphics cards looking for an upgrade- and there are plenty of people falling into this category. For them, the sacrifice of 5% speed is probably a much lesser cost to pay than replacing their higher-end AGP card. And when the time is right, they can upgrade to a PCI-E x16 card without having to worry about changing the motherboard all over again. In fact, who knows- maybe the CPU expansion slot on this ASRock board might allow for a later generation of AMD CPUs with a new socket as well." Basically, when you’re buying the ASRock 939Dual, you’re playing it safe. And that’s not a bad thing at all	ojibwa (8968)
395422	2005-10-12 11:15:00	AMD ATHLON 64 3500+ 939 VENICE CPU Processor GBP 125.00 (Approximately C $256.96) Venice Core, socket 939, 2000Mhz FSB, 2.2GHz, 640KB cache (512KB L2), 90nm process technology, SSE3 support * Processor Type / Form Factor AMD Athlon 64 Performance Index 3500+ Processor Core: Venice Tech Process : 90 nm Clock Speed : 2.20 GHz FSB : Integrated into Chip, HT Speed 2000MHz Instruction Set : MMX, SSE, SSE2, SSE3, 3DNOW!, 3DNOW!+ Professional Voltage : 1.35V/1.4V Architecture Features HyperTransport technology How much will this CPU cost after the next price drop in your opinion? Is it a good deal at the moment? my quote "Wicked if that's so. Probably more like, choose AGP (SLI?) or PCI-E (SLI?), or choose one AGP and one PCI-E." Realised my error. There is no AGP SLI as you've told me, and it only sunk in the moment I looked at the motherboard and saw only one AGP slot :o But from the looks of it you could have two 7800GTX's or whatever the freakishly best card is right now, along with a 6800Ultra/GT 8x AGP (or in my case a 6600GT 256Mb [maybe the extra RAM will help with producing textures?])	ojibwa (8968)
395423	2005-10-12 17:44:00	bump I found out some things, If you use an AGP card as well as a PCI-E you cannot combine the two for extra performance, unless you count one card running one monitor, and the other card running another as extra performance. Is this a good deal on RAM? (RAM) GeIL 1GB PC3200 DDR400 Memory (512MB X 2) [(not cheap OEM) not sure what this means] (Approximately C $112.63)	ojibwa (8968)
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