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Thread ID: 137932	2014-09-10 09:57:00	walked away from tonights TV3 election debate	notechyet (4479)	PC World Chat

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1383690	2014-09-11 23:33:00	Meanwhile the left-wing Green Party are polling higher than they ever have before ;) THE GREENS AND THE RISK TO NEW ZEALAND Russel Norman is a "former" Marxist and current co - leader of the Green Party of Aotearoa New Zealand. Norman was born in Brisbane, Australia, and worked a number of unskilled roles after dropping out of medical school. Norman moved to New Zealand in 1997 saying this was to observe the red-green Alliance coalition. He wrote his political science PhD thesis on the Alliance, and was active within the party editing its party newsletter. Whilst living in Australia, Norman was involved with the Socialist Workers' Party (a revolutionary Marxist-Leninist organisation) for several years.[ He was also a member of Resistance-the youth wing of the Australian Democratic Socialist Party. The Democratic Socialist Perspective (DSP) was an Australian Marxist political group, which operated as the largest component of a broad-left socialist formation, the Socialist Alliance. In 2010, the DSP voted to merge into the Socialist Alliance. He worked at a variety of jobs in Australia. Listing some of these, and in chronological order: 1988, Nurses Aid. 1989-90, Sheetmetal worker. 1990-2, Car assembly-line worker. 1994-5, Gardener. He arrived in New Zealand in 1997, worked on an organic farm for a while, and in 2002 entered politics standing for the Greens. Metiria Leanne Agnes Stanton Turei (born 1970) is a New Zealand member of Parliament and the female co-leader of the Green Party alongside Russel Norman. Between 1989–1991, Metiria was the Tumuaki o Te Iwi Maori Rawakore o Aotearoa and involved with Te Roopu Rawakore o Aotearoa. Metiria was a founding member of the Random Trollops performance art troupe. She was a candidate for the McGillicuddy Serious Party in the 1993 election and for the Aotearoa Legalise Cannabis Party in the 1996 election. She joined the Green Party in 2002 and was elected as co-leader at the Green Party AGM in 2009. Apart from her being a part of the Random Trollops, she doesn't appear to have held down a job of substance. These two, one a dyed in the wool socialist with Marxist leanings, and the other just someone desperate to get a tax paid ride in Parliament with whatever party will have her, are the leaders of the party that Labour are happy to suck up to just to get onto the front benches. Neither have a work history or useful education which might qualify them for politics or indeed any history of being concerned with the 'green' environment which is the camouflage used to attract gullible and young voters. The worst thing that can happen to New Zealand, for everyone, is for the Greens (red on the inside) to get a controlling foothold in Parliament with the Union controlled Labour party and its self confessed socialist inspired leader.	Cicero (40)
1383691	2014-09-11 23:34:00	. A recent OECD survey measured the cleanliness of all major rivers that flow through farmland in OECD countries . Of the three New Zealand rivers measured, where did the Clutha, Waitaki and Waikato, respectively, place? a) 87th, 89th and 90th b) 42nd, 58th and 76th c) 1st, 2nd and 4th Answer: Of all major rivers in the developed world that flow through farmland, the OECD found Clutha rated 1st, the Waitaki 2nd and the Waikato 4th for cleanliness . 2 . Compared with other developed countries’ major rivers, the OECD study found New Zealand’s three longest rivers contained what levels of nitrates and total phosphorous, respectively? a) very high and relatively high b) relatively high and high c) very low and relatively low Answer: Our three longest rivers were found to have very low levels of nitrates, and relatively low levels of total phosphorus . 3 . The latest Commission for the Environment report said what percentage of New Zealand rivers are getting cleaner? a) 20% b) 50% c) 90% Answer: 90% of our rivers are getting cleaner . There are river care and land care groups on all main and many small rivers across New Zealand . They’re spending millions of dollars to improve water quality . They include farmers, Fonterra, Dairy NZ, NZ Beef and Lamb, Landcare NZ, Federated Farmers, Iwi, fertilizer companies, universities, and regional councils . 4 . How did the Greens interpret the Commissioner for the Environment’s report? a) They told the truth and congratulated farmers on the 90% . b) The lied and said only 50% of rivers were getting cleaner . c) They lied and said water quality was getting worse . Answer: Russel Norman lied and said water quality was getting worse, when the Commissioner for the Environment said 90% of rivers were getting cleaner overall . 5 . How many of New Zealand’s 1000 rivers did the Parliamentary Commissioner for the Environment classify very poor for cleanliness? a) 326 b) 17 c) 2 Answer: Only 17 of our 1000 rivers are still rated very poor for cleanliness . But the Commissioner for the Environment reports that each one is getting cleaner . 6 . Compared with the OECD average of 11%, what percentage of available fresh water does New Zealand use? a) 43% b) 11 . 2% c) 1 . 2% Answer: We use only 1 . 2% of our available fresh water . That’s nearly the lowest in the OECD . South Korea uses 43% . (North Korea’s not saying . ) 7 . How many kilometres of rivers and streams have farmers so far fenced off? a) 20,000 km b) 30,000 km c) 45,000 km Answer: Farmers have so far fenced off 45,000 km of rivers and streams (note: the 20,000 km being quoted by National is Fonterra farmers only), as well as doing a great deal of planting alongside waterways . 8 . What percentage of New Zealand dairy-farm rivers have farmers so far fenced off? a) 30% b) 60% c) 90% Answer: Farmers have so far fenced off 90% of New Zealand rivers that run through farmland . 9 . What has made farmers fence off so many rivers at their own expense? a) Government regulation b) Local and regional council regulation c) Their concern as practical environmentalists Answer: As dairy farm income has risen, farmers have been able to afford to help clean up our rivers, and are doing more fencing and planting all the time . 10 . How do the Greens plan to reward farmers for their voluntary efforts? a) Tax them less b) Tax them the same c) Tax them more Answer: The Green want to tax farmers more, making it harder for them to continue their fencing and planting . 11 . How much are farming-related groups spending per year to solve the leaching problem? a) $2 . 5 million b) $12 . 5 million c) $25 million Answer: Over $25 million per year is going into research to solve the leaching problem . The effort is constrained only by the number of available scientists . 12 . Where are New Zealand’s worst affected stretches of rivers: a) downstream from farms b) downstream from towns c) downstream from Green Party offices . Answer: Our worst-affected stretches of river are downstream from urban, not rural, areas . 13 . What is the Greens’ solution to improving river water quality? a) Recognise that farmers are practical environmentalists, and encourage them to finish their fencing and planting . b) Provide state assistance to help speed up the process c) Ban all new dairy farm conversions Answer: The Greens have said they want to cap dairy farming at its current level . 14 . What will be the result of the Greens stopping new dairy farming? a) More export income b) Better schools, better hospitals – and a cleaner environment c) The loss of precious new export income that would allow us to afford better hospitals, better schools, and a cleaner environment Answer: The loss of precious new export income that would allow us to afford better hospitals, better schools – and a cleaner environment . 15 . With their very public “dirty dairying” campaign, the Greens have:- a) helpfully improved New Zealand’s international reputation b) made no difference to New Zealand’s international reputation c) deliberately sabotaged New Zealand’s international reputation Answer: By loudly exaggerating problems with our clean, green image, the Greens have deliberately sabotaged New Zealand’s international reputation . . THE GREENS DON’T CARE ABOUT SABOTAGING NEW ZEALAND . To say that farmers pull their weight for New Zealand is a massive understatement . Together these 60,000 hardworking and innovative men and women earn 52% of our export income . And frankly, they’re hurting at the torrent of unjustified criticism from the Greens that they don’t care about our rivers . They want you to know the facts . There are river care and land care groups on all main and many small rivers across New Zealand . They’re spending millions of dollars to improve water quality . These groups include farmers, Fonterra, Dairy NZ, NZ Beef and Lamb, Landcare NZ, Federated Farmers, iwi, fertilizer companies, universities, and regional councils . The Greens’ unfair “dirty dairying” campaign has done much to sabotage New Zealand’s international reputation . You have to wonder whether these people are New Zealanders first, or more committed to the Socialist International goal of bringing down capitalism . The fact is, thousands of New Zealand farmers are heavily committed financially and ethically to making our rivers cleaner . (A commitment which started long before the “dirty dairying” campaign . ) THE DOWNSIDE OF A HUGE UPSIDE So why do we have this problem with our rivers? It goes back to the early days of our farming and industry . The upside of those pioneering efforts was that farmers gave New Zealanders the highest standard of living in the world . The downside was that, with no practical alternatives, they had to use the rivers as a means of disposal . Everyone accepted that . There was little or no dissent . Then in the 1960s, attitudes changed . And work began on cleaning up . We’re happy to acknowledge that the Green movement was a part of that attitude shift . We respect the Greens as environmental watchdogs . But their solution to every problem is more state control . Their latest list of policies reveals them to be more concerned with socialist redistribution than about the environment . FARMERS MADE US A RICH COUNTRY, NOT THE STATE . We remind you who built the farming industry on which New Zealanders still depend for their high standard of living . It wasn’t the state . That’s why we say innovative, commonsense farmers have a better record of fixing environmental problems related to farming than heavy-handed bureaucrats from Wellington . These are just a very few of the many waterways that have community groups working hard to clean them up: Ngongotaha Stream, Bay of Plenty . This stream is benefitting from restoration work that began decades ago . A whole-of-catchment plan led to 90% of the river’s banks being fenced and replanted . Result: much less sediment entering the stream, less particulate nitrogen and phosophorous – and less E coli . Watercress Creek, Tasman . A Fonterra-financed farm river plan is reaping big benefits . The creek is now fully fenced and the Fonterra factory’s waste no longer overflows into it . Council, schools, communities and farmers are all beavering away replanting . Rai River, Marlborough . At one time, during the dairy season there were three million cow crossings a day in this catchment . After 20 years of huge expenditure on bridges and culverts, the number of cows in the water at any one time is close to zero . Result: E coli levels are way down . Shag River, Otago . Various farmer organizations and the regional council shared with farmers information about best practice . Farmers then invested heavily in reticulated water, fencing and new practices . Result: an impressive drop in E coli levels . Please don’t misunderstand us . We applaud the Greens for alerting us to problems . We just have a big problem with their heavy-handed state solutions . MORE FACTS ABOUT HOW WE’RE IMPROVING OUR WATER QUALITY There are three sources of pollution in waterways: pathogens (faeces), sediment (erosion) and nutrients (mainly phosphates and nitrogen) . Every year the pathogens and sediment problems have got better . And we’re now seeing a reduction in phosphates thanks to the efforts of farmers, the government, regional councils and other groups . Only nitrogen now needs to be beaten and we’re on track to knock it out too as millions are poured into research and development . Something you should know when you hear the word nitrogen . Nitrogen occurs naturally in waterways – if it didn’t we’d have a much bigger problem . Life in the water would die . Rivers can handle quite heavy loads of nitrogen . There’s no real problem until blooms appear . That’s a rare occurrence in New Zealand’s 1000 rivers . NIWA’s Dr Davies-Colley had this to say about our improving water quality: · “The fact that some heavily polluted rivers – mostly in dairying areas – have turned the corner in recent years gives us cause for optimism for the future . ” · “A relatively few urban- and mine-affected rivers in New Zealand probably have the worst water quality because of mobilisation of toxic contaminants such as heavy metals as well as severe habitat modification . ” TO STOP THE GREENS, YOU MUST STOP LABOUR . If you party vote Labour and the Left wins, in a couple of weeks 30% of the Cunliffe cabinet will be Green . Russel Norman and Metiria Turei will be Joint Deputy Prime Ministers . Ex-communist Norman is going to be driving a hard bargain to get his hands on the Finance portfolio . We’ll have up to seven Green ministers . Is that what you want? If not, there’s only one thing you can do about it . Don’t vote Labour because Labour means 30% Greens .	Cicero (40)
1383692	2014-09-11 23:52:00	. A recent OECD survey measured the cleanliness of all major rivers that flow through farmland in OECD countries . Of the three New Zealand rivers measured, where did the Clutha, Waitaki and Waikato, respectively, place?a) 87th, 89th and 90thb) 42nd, 58th and 76thc) 1st, 2nd and 4thAnswer: Of all major rivers in the developed world that flow through farmland, the OECD found Clutha rated 1st, the Waitaki 2nd and the Waikato 4th for cleanliness . 2 . Compared with other developed countries’ major rivers, the OECD study found New Zealand’s three longest rivers contained what levels of nitrates and total phosphorous, respectively?a) very high and relatively highb) relatively high and highc) very low and relatively lowAnswer: Our three longest rivers were found to have very low levels of nitrates, and relatively low levels of total phosphorus . 3 . The latest Commission for the Environment report said what percentage of New Zealand rivers are getting cleaner?a) 20%b) 50%c) 90%Answer: 90% of our rivers are getting cleaner . There are river care and land care groups on all main and many small rivers across New Zealand . They’re spending millions of dollars to improve water quality . They include farmers, Fonterra, Dairy NZ, NZ Beef and Lamb, Landcare NZ, Federated Farmers, Iwi, fertilizer companies, universities, and regional councils . 4 . How did the Greens interpret the Commissioner for the Environment’s report?a) They told the truth and congratulated farmers on the 90% . b) The lied and said only 50% of rivers were getting cleaner . c) They lied and said water quality was getting worse . Answer: Russel Norman lied and said water quality was getting worse, when the Commissioner for the Environment said 90% of rivers were getting cleaner overall . 5 . How many of New Zealand’s 1000 rivers did the Parliamentary Commissioner for the Environment classify very poor for cleanliness?a) 326b) 17c) 2Answer: Only 17 of our 1000 rivers are still rated very poor for cleanliness . But the Commissioner for the Environment reports that each one is getting cleaner . 6 . Compared with the OECD average of 11%, what percentage of available fresh water does New Zealand use?a) 43%b) 11 . 2%c) 1 . 2%Answer: We use only 1 . 2% of our available fresh water . That’s nearly the lowest in the OECD . South Korea uses 43% . (North Korea’s not saying . ) 7 . How many kilometres of rivers and streams have farmers so far fenced off?a) 20,000 kmb) 30,000 kmc) 45,000 kmAnswer: Farmers have so far fenced off 45,000 km of rivers and streams (note: the 20,000 km being quoted by National is Fonterra farmers only), as well as doing a great deal of planting alongside waterways . 8 . What percentage of New Zealand dairy-farm rivers have farmers so far fenced off?a) 30%b) 60%c) 90%Answer: Farmers have so far fenced off 90% of New Zealand rivers that run through farmland . 9 . What has made farmers fence off so many rivers at their own expense?a) Government regulationb) Local and regional council regulationc) Their concern as practical environmentalistsAnswer: As dairy farm income has risen, farmers have been able to afford to help clean up our rivers, and are doing more fencing and planting all the time . 10 . How do the Greens plan to reward farmers for their voluntary efforts?a) Tax them lessb) Tax them the samec) Tax them moreAnswer: The Green want to tax farmers more, making it harder for them to continue their fencing and planting . 11 . How much are farming-related groups spending per year to solve the leaching problem?a) $2 . 5 millionb) $12 . 5 millionc) $25 millionAnswer: Over $25 million per year is going into research to solve the leaching problem . The effort is constrained only by the number of available scientists . 12 . Where are New Zealand’s worst affected stretches of rivers:a) downstream from farms b) downstream from towns c) downstream from Green Party offices . Answer: Our worst-affected stretches of river are downstream from urban, not rural, areas . 13 . What is the Greens’ solution to improving river water quality?a) Recognise that farmers are practical environmentalists, and encourage them to finish their fencing and planting . b) Provide state assistance to help speed up the processc) Ban all new dairy farm conversionsAnswer: The Greens have said they want to cap dairy farming at its current level . 14 . What will be the result of the Greens stopping new dairy farming?a) More export incomeb) Better schools, better hospitals – and a cleaner environmentc) The loss of precious new export income that would allow us to afford better hospitals, better schools, and a cleaner environmentAnswer: The loss of precious new export income that would allow us to afford better hospitals, better schools – and a cleaner environment . 15 . With their very public “dirty dairying” campaign, the Greens have:- a) helpfully improved New Zealand’s international reputation b) made no difference to New Zealand’s international reputation c) deliberately sabotaged New Zealand’s international reputationAnswer: By loudly exaggerating problems with our clean, green image, the Greens have deliberately sabotaged New Zealand’s international reputation . . THE GREENS DON’T CARE ABOUT SABOTAGING NEW ZEALAND . To say that farmers pull their weight for New Zealand is a massive understatement . Together these 60,000 hardworking and innovative men and women earn 52% of our export income . And frankly, they’re hurting at the torrent of unjustified criticism from the Greens that they don’t care about our rivers . They want you to know the facts . There are river care and land care groups on all main and many small rivers across New Zealand . They’re spending millions of dollars to improve water quality . These groups include farmers, Fonterra, Dairy NZ, NZ Beef and Lamb, Landcare NZ, Federated Farmers, iwi, fertilizer companies, universities, and regional councils . The Greens’ unfair “dirty dairying” campaign has done much to sabotage New Zealand’s international reputation . You have to wonder whether these people are New Zealanders first, or more committed to the Socialist International goal of bringing down capitalism . The fact is, thousands of New Zealand farmers are heavily committed financially and ethically to making our rivers cleaner . (A commitment which started long before the “dirty dairying” campaign . ) THE DOWNSIDE OF A HUGE UPSIDE So why do we have this problem with our rivers? It goes back to the early days of our farming and industry . The upside of those pioneering efforts was that farmers gave New Zealanders the highest standard of living in the world . The downside was that, with no practical alternatives, they had to use the rivers as a means of disposal . Everyone accepted that . There was little or no dissent . Then in the 1960s, attitudes changed . And work began on cleaning up . We’re happy to acknowledge that the Green movement was a part of that attitude shift . We respect the Greens as environmental watchdogs . But their solution to every problem is more state control . Their latest list of policies reveals them to be more concerned with socialist redistribution than about the environment . FARMERS MADE US A RICH COUNTRY, NOT THE STATE . We remind you who built the farming industry on which New Zealanders still depend for their high standard of living . It wasn’t the state . That’s why we say innovative, commonsense farmers have a better record of fixing environmental problems related to farming than heavy-handed bureaucrats from Wellington . These are just a very few of the many waterways that have community groups working hard to clean them up: Ngongotaha Stream, Bay of Plenty . This stream is benefitting from restoration work that began decades ago . A whole-of-catchment plan led to 90% of the river’s banks being fenced and replanted . Result: much less sediment entering the stream, less particulate nitrogen and phosophorous – and less E coli . Watercress Creek, Tasman . A Fonterra-financed farm river plan is reaping big benefits . The creek is now fully fenced and the Fonterra factory’s waste no longer overflows into it . Council, schools, communities and farmers are all beavering away replanting . Rai River, Marlborough . At one time, during the dairy season there were three million cow crossings a day in this catchment . After 20 years of huge expenditure on bridges and culverts, the number of cows in the water at any one time is close to zero . Result: E coli levels are way down . Shag River, Otago . Various farmer organizations and the regional council shared with farmers information about best practice . Farmers then invested heavily in reticulated water, fencing and new practices . Result: an impressive drop in E coli levels . Please don’t misunderstand us . We applaud the Greens for alerting us to problems . We just have a big problem with their heavy-handed state solutions . MORE FACTS ABOUT HOW WE’RE IMPROVING OUR WATER QUALITY There are three sources of pollution in waterways: pathogens (faeces), sediment (erosion) and nutrients (mainly phosphates and nitrogen) . Every year the pathogens and sediment problems have got better . And we’re now seeing a reduction in phosphates thanks to the efforts of farmers, the government, regional councils and other groups . Only nitrogen now needs to be beaten and we’re on track to knock it out too as millions are poured into research and development . Something you should know when you hear the word nitrogen . Nitrogen occurs naturally in waterways – if it didn’t we’d have a much bigger problem . Life in the water would die . Rivers can handle quite heavy loads of nitrogen . There’s no real problem until blooms appear . That’s a rare occurrence in New Zealand’s 1000 rivers . NIWA’s Dr Davies-Colley had this to say about our improving water quality: · “The fact that some heavily polluted rivers – mostly in dairying areas – have turned the corner in recent years gives us cause for optimism for the future . ” · “A relatively few urban- and mine-affected rivers in New Zealand probably have the worst water quality because of mobilisation of toxic contaminants such as heavy metals as well as severe habitat modification . ” TO STOP THE GREENS, YOU MUST STOP LABOUR . If you party vote Labour and the Left wins, in a couple of weeks 30% of the Cunliffe cabinet will be Green . Russel Norman and Metiria Turei will be Joint Deputy Prime Ministers . Ex-communist Norman is going to be driving a hard bargain to get his hands on the Finance portfolio . We’ll have up to seven Green ministers . Is that what you want? If not, there’s only one thing you can do about it . Don’t vote Labour because Labour means 30% Greens . Im still not sure what policy of the greens you dislike	plod (107)
1383693	2014-09-12 00:34:00	Very interesting there. I'm more and more "aware" of the Greens "Bait and switch" headlines. Bait you in with something, like "Did you know abortion is illegal in NZ? We want to fix that!" well yeah it's illegal, technically it's killing somebody and it goes against the Human Rights Charter. I've not yet had a chance to watch the leaders debate. Anybody have a link handy for it OnDemand or something?	Chilling_Silence (9)
1383694	2014-09-12 00:43:00	Cicero, got references for those figures? I'd be interested in having a look at the source material!	Nick G (16709)
1383695	2014-09-12 00:48:00	Cicero, got references for those figures? I'd be interested in having a look at the source material! No, just made it up, it's my hobby.	Cicero (40)
1383696	2014-09-12 00:53:00	How many people realise that any vote for any of the minor parties is a vote for the opposition? If you vote for any party but National you are taking votes away from National which is a vote, by default, for Labour. If that is what you want, then vote for a minor party which will help Labour, and they need all the help they can get. But it does seem that it does not matter. If you believe the polls, National will win the election but not by much.	Roscoe (6288)
1383697	2014-09-12 01:18:00	How many people realise that any vote for any of the minor parties is a vote for the opposition? If you vote for any party but National you are taking votes away from National which is a vote, by default, for Labour. If that is what you want, then vote for a minor party which will help Labour, and they need all the help they can get. But it does seem that it does not matter. If you believe the polls, National will win the election but not by much. I dunno, Act and Conservatives and United Future would all happily side with National.	Chilling_Silence (9)
1383698	2014-09-12 01:41:00	Now what would be funny if a labour member was found to be having an affair with a ex national member	plod (107)
1383699	2014-09-12 01:58:00	1. You cannot legislate the poor into prosperity by legislating the wealthy out of prosperity. 2. What one person receives without working for, another person must work for without receiving. 3. The government cannot give to anybody anything that the government does not first take from somebody else. 4. You cannot multiply wealth by dividing it ! 5. When half of the people get the idea that they do not have to work because the other half is going to take care of them, and when the other half gets the idea that it does no good to work because somebody else is going to get what they work for, that is the beginning of the end of any nation.	Cicero (40)
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