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Thread ID: 137976	2014-09-18 06:34:00	Economics 101	Terry Porritt (14)	PC World Chat

Post ID	Timestamp	Content	User
1384173	2014-09-18 21:59:00	Increase min wage, decrease company tax to offset it. Government probably better off with paye as companies usually pay as little tax as possible anyway.	plod (107)
1384174	2014-09-18 22:37:00	Increase min wage, decrease company tax to offset it. Government probably better off with paye as companies usually pay as little tax as possible anyway. You're the only post to even try & offer an alternative. Its so easy to moan, especially when 1 govt at least tries to bring spending excesses down. Increase min wage, manufacturers will go : hmmn, i can get that same thing done overseas for 1/5 the wage cost & with no govt intervention or add on govt costs(ACC etc) Thats why we dont have alot of manufacturing in NZ, and getting less every year . Its gone offshore or simply closed down. Ecomonics 101 :we are a farm based economy : ie NOT A RICH COUNTRY. Yet we expect the things that can can only be obtained with high govt spending . The welfare state is not cheap to run. Want the govt to stop spending more than it earns, heck thats a dead easy fix. they just stop spending..stop spending on us. This has been going on since the 50's , give the masses what they want (handouts, infrastructure we cant afford) even if the country cant afford it. Look at things from a world scale: say you have a farm based economy with wages at 5x - 10x the world average and out of control govt & city council spending. Whats going to happen to that country ? Getting back to the original post: spending more than you earn actually does make us happy, not sad. Why else would we borrow to buy expensive cars & big screen TV's	1101 (13337)
1384175	2014-09-18 22:46:00	Increase min wage, decrease company tax to offset it. Government probably better off with paye as companies usually pay as little tax as possible anyway. Personally I don't agree with increasing the minimum wage ("just because") although I do agree with decreasing company tax, considering that a large percentage of NZ businesses are small locally operated setups who would benefit from paying less tax. I think a viable solution needs to be looked at for the minimum wage, ideally the minimum weekly wage for a 40 hour week needs to be higher than what you would get paid if you were going for the unemployment benefit ( or what ever they call it now). After that, if an employer is going to pay you more you should be able to demonstrate that you have achieved more skills and are worth more to your employer either by way of some sort of on the job training/apprenticeship etc as paying the employee more "just because" is not exactly a viable solution.	Webdevguy (17166)
1384176	2014-09-18 22:52:00	You're the only post to even try & offer an alternative. Its so easy to moan, especially when 1 govt at least tries to bring spending excesses down. Increase min wage, manufacturers will go : hmmn, i can get that same thing done overseas for 1/5 the wage cost & with no govt intervention or add on govt costs(ACC etc) Thats why we dont have alot of manufacturing in NZ, and getting less every year . Its gone offshore or simply closed down. Ecomonics 101 :we are a farm based economy : ie NOT A RICH COUNTRY. Yet we expect the things that can can only be obtained with high govt spending . The welfare state is not cheap to run. Want the govt to stop spending more than it earns, heck thats a dead easy fix. they just stop spending..stop spending on us. This has been going on since the 50's , give the masses what they want (handouts, infrastructure we cant afford) even if the country cant afford it. Look at things from a world scale: say you have a farm based economy with wages at 5x - 10x the world average and out of control govt & city council spending. Whats going to happen to that country ? Getting back to the original post: spending more than you earn actually does make us happy, not sad. Why else would we borrow to buy expensive cars & big screen TV's We don't have to be a "rich" country to be able to pay more, we just have to become a country of more skilled people who are able to earn more for what they do. We have to change from a farming/manufacturing country to a country that develops and exports its software/manufacturing skills as a service. We can develop and design products here and then license the rights to have them manufactured in Asia where hourly rates are much more affordable than our own.	Webdevguy (17166)
1384177	2014-09-19 00:56:00	Personally I don't agree with increasing the minimum wage ("just because") a I'd agree. But the downside is we have so many who simply cannot afford to live in NZ . On current min wage, how can anyone afford to feed a family, pay horrendous AK rent, pay food & power costs etc If the govt is handing out cash & subsidies for low wage families , then in effect isnt that the same thing done in a less efficient way? I have a friend getting "working for Families" handouts. They used it to help pay for overseas family holidays .... :groan:	1101 (13337)
1384178	2014-09-19 01:22:00	I'd agree. But the downside is we have so many who simply cannot afford to live in NZ . On current min wage, how can anyone afford to feed a family, pay horrendous AK rent, pay food & power costs etc I agree, it is incredibly tough and very unfair for some couples, both of whom may be working 40 hour weeks on minimum pay as cleaners, supermarket shelf stackers, security guards etc but who still can't pay all the basic bills and feed a growing family. I think this is a situation where the employer could look at stepping in with some form of on the job learning courses ( similar to what MacDonalds have) that allow workers to up skill or learn new skills, get certified and earn more as a result. I know that hotel cleaners get paid minimum wage or maybe a bit more, for a job that is vital to our tourism economy. I would say that it would be preferable to give them additional training and additional skill sets and an option to get a better paying job than to pay more per hour than for a lowly skilled labour intensive job that is only worth $18 an hour. I know a lot of these schemes have been trialled with previous governments , I still think this is a better direction to head than just to pay someone more in a job "just because it is expensive to live in Auckland".. it is always going to be expensive to live in Auckland compared to the rest of the country and low paid jobs are always going to be low paying jobs in an expensive city.	Webdevguy (17166)
1384179	2014-09-19 02:42:00	Just a thought. If all the overseas companies exited New Zealand, would that mean over 60% unemployment?	the_bogan (9949)
1384180	2014-09-19 03:52:00	Just a thought. If all the overseas companies exited New Zealand, would that mean over 60% unemployment? Most likely, if not more. NZ is between the devil and the deep blue sea. That's why good news has to be made out of even a deficit caused by an increase of 1.4 billion in profits going out of the country "One of the reasons the current account deficit blew out by $1.4 billion to $2 billion in the June quarter actually reflects positive news about the economy." But wouldn't it be nice if those profits actually stayed in the country.....but that is pie in the sky :groan:	Terry Porritt (14)
1384181	2014-09-19 04:12:00	Now this is what I call “Creative Accounting”. 5931	B.M. (505)
1384182	2014-09-19 04:27:00	Please understand this. If the minimum wage increases then so does the cost of everything else. All other wages would also have to increase by the same percentage (no way is an experienced person going to accept being paid at the same rate as a 16 year old just starting out}. All prices of goods and services would also increase by the same percentage ( the cash to pay increased wages has to come from somewhere). In short the government gets more tax but the people are if anything worse off than they were. It is all smoke and mirrors and although more pay sounds good the nett effect is no real improvement for anyone, minimum wage workers would still be just as badly off as they are now. Any political party pushing a rise in minimum pay is just exploiting those foolish enough to be sucked in to get their vote.	CliveM (6007)
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