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Thread ID: 138298	2014-11-05 22:15:00	When is enough enough?	Zippity (58)	PC World Chat

Post ID	Timestamp	Content	User
1387750	2014-11-09 04:21:00	Everyone has an opinion on this, but I choose to look at the facts that are relevant as they stand. The families want to find someone criminally negligent because ALL safety measures were not taken. The law will very soon make directors directly liable for the safety of the employees. SE can not ensure ALL safety measures can be mitigated. The families are prepared to send people in regardless of any remaining risks. Question : If people went in and died trying to recover the bodies, what do you think the families of those people would want to do? Answer : They would want criminal charges. SE have made the correct decision.	Krakka (17266)
1387751	2014-11-09 05:58:00	Question : If people went in and died trying to recover the bodies, what do you think the families of those people would want to do? Answer : They would want criminal charges. Theres one MASSIVE hole in that statement. Some professions get you to sign a Wavier when doing some things. In this case it would basically say they enter the mine at their own risk, and the owners (in this case SE) will not be held responsible in the event of any injury, death or {insert what ever}. This will protect any owners from any charges if something did happen. ( of course it would need to be a legal produced document). You would find the people who want to go in and expose what ever there is to find would gladly sign it. Of course there would have to be some sort of control as to how many could go in other wise there could be a crowd.	wainuitech (129)
1387752	2014-11-09 06:02:00	Theres one MASSIVE hole in that statement. Some professions get you to sign a Wavier when doing some things. In this case it would basically say they enter the mine at their own risk, and the owners (in this case SE) will not be held responsible in the event of any injury, death or {insert what ever}. This will protect any owners from any charges if something did happen. ( of course it would need to be a legal produced document). "legal produced document" and therein lies the problem. With the new workplace safety rules coming in, you cannot contract your way out of responsibility, even with the consent of the workers. So there is no hole in my statement.	Krakka (17266)
1387753	2014-11-09 07:35:00	Some professions get you to sign a Wavier when doing some things . In this case it would basically say they enter the mine at their own risk, and the owners (in this case SE) will not be held responsible in the event of any injury, death or {insert what ever} . This will protect any owners from any charges if something did happen . ( of course it would need to be a legal produced document) . Sorry Wainui, I know you mean well and other people have said the same . Unfortunately its not legally possible . No-one can contract out of health and safety or criminal laws . Family members who lose a father/brother in a recovery operation are entitled to ACC, plus they are not bound by the deceased waiving liability . They could sue . What about life insurance companies - would they pay out if the deceased deliberately waived liability and put themselves in harms way?	Winston001 (3612)
1387754	2014-11-09 08:10:00	"legal produced document" and therein lies the problem. With the new workplace safety rules coming in, you cannot contract your way out of responsibility, even with the consent of the workers. So there is no hole in my statement. Do your research on the time -- the law doest take effect till 1 April 2015. So it still can be done. When ever you go into hospital to have heart function tests, they make you sign a wavier that explains the tests they are going to do, in some very rare cases can cause death. While the hospital is an ideal place, because if you have a heart attack because of the tests they are right there, but they cover their backside because in some cases they cant save you. If you don't understand and don't sign it they cant do the tests. I did read it and they are very careful in their wording. BUT here's a question and its legit, does anyone know 100% certain how they have that mine blocked off so no one can get in -- A chained gate would be nothing -- So what's stopping someone going in "in secret".	wainuitech (129)
1387755	2014-11-09 09:12:00	................ A chained gate would be nothing -- So what's stopping someone going in "in secret". I move that both the local Mayor and MP should be the first to enter the mine :)	Zippity (58)
1387756	2014-11-09 18:38:00	Sorry Wainui, I know you mean well and other people have said the same . Unfortunately its not legally possible . No-one can contract out of health and safety or criminal laws . Family members who lose a father/brother in a recovery operation are entitled to ACC, plus they are not bound by the deceased waiving liability . They could sue . What about life insurance companies - would they pay out if the deceased deliberately waived liability and put themselves in harms way? Winston, I agree that you can’t contract out of a Statute, but which one would they be caught by? Bear in mind that mining experts have declared entry to the mine safe and possible . The only problem is some shiny arses, at the behest of the Government, who in turn wouldn’t know a Mine from a Rabbit Hole, declaring entry unsafe . It could be done and would be done anywhere else in the world .	B.M. (505)
1387757	2014-11-09 20:50:00	Winston, I agree that you can’t contract out of a Statute, but which one would they be caught by? Bear in mind that some mining experts have declared entry to the mine safe and possible. The only problem is some shiny arses, at the behest of the Government, who in turn wouldn’t know a Mine from a Rabbit Hole, declaring entry unsafe. It possibly could be done and maybe could be done anywhere else in the world. Corrected for you :)	Zippity (58)
1387758	2014-11-10 00:10:00	You Zippo are a jolly dag.	Cicero (40)
1387759	2014-11-10 02:31:00	A dag is sheep's jewellery :)	Zippity (58)
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