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Thread ID: 138653	2014-12-31 08:46:00	tracing Aircraft	mzee (3324)	PC World Chat

Post ID	Timestamp	Content	User
1391299	2015-01-01 14:05:00	On another board someone pointed out that airlines tread such a financial line that they are down to $1 per passenger on some flights . Ever wondered why flying is so cheap? Most of us assume the best seats are sold at full price and we get the bargains to fill the plane, but not always so . Some flights are losers just to get the plane back to base, but better with $50 passengers than empty . The cost of sending data to satellites is significant and you'll know that if you've ever tried . A sat phone is used by very few people and even the military restrict them because they aren't allowed to have them . Imagine a million aircraft uploading to a satellite 24/7 . There isn't the capacity . Imagine that the data is redundant 1 . 5 hours later so it is deleted . And nothing goes wrong with any of those 1 million aircraft in a 24 hour period . A big win for the satellite boys but an irritating large bill for an airline struggling to keep going . A bill which serves no purpose unless there is a disaster and the risks are vanishingly small .	Winston001 (3612)
1391300	2015-01-01 14:13:00	Boeing do supply packages on contract which enable the engines to talk to satellites every 15/30 minutes. That isn't the same as a black box but its still useful information and includes GSP data. There is a cost. Malaysian Air did not have that contract: the engines did shakes hands with a satellite every 30 mins which is why 370 has been roughly tracked although it disappeared. But no actual data from the plane was exchanged.	Winston001 (3612)
1391301	2015-01-04 05:05:00	What would the actual cost on a 747 or 767 be? Maybe $2 per passenger? Cost is an excuse, not a reason.	Krakka (17266)
1391302	2015-01-04 05:51:00	On another board someone pointed out that airlines tread such a financial line that they are down to $1 per passenger on some flights. But not our very own Air NZ, where the international sectors are heavily subsidised / propped up by the domestic operation :illogical	WalOne (4202)
1391303	2015-01-04 06:21:00	What would the actual cost on a 747 or 767 be? Maybe $2 per passenger? Cost is an excuse, not a reason. Pretty good excuse when you think back to Pan Am and Freddie Laker.	prefect (6291)
1391304	2015-01-04 06:35:00	This comment from a reviewer of a new book The Glass Cage: Automation and Us By Nicholas Carr is topical. Whilst a little lengthy, it is worthwhile reading (emphasis mine): Consider cockpit automation. Carr goes into detail about the design of the Airbus A320, whose fly-by-wire system and “glass cockpit” of screens and knobs ushered airplanes into the digital era by automating and routinizing tasks, like controlling airspeed and pitch, that used to be performed by the flight crew. Automation allowed for greater efficiency in the cockpit (and reduced the number of people needed in it from four to two). But, as Carr shows, automation also “severed the tactile link between pilot and plane” and “inserted a digital computer between human command and machine response.” Pilots now spend most of their time monitoring many small machines rather than flying one big one. In fact, Carr argues, “The commercial pilot has become a computer operator.” Yet numerous studies have shown how computers can distract pilots, making them less likely to achieve situational awareness in an emergency; research has also linked automation to a deterioration of the psychomotor skills required to keep an airplane in the air. As a result, pilots can suffer what one expert calls “skill fade” of their cognitive and motor abilities, leaving them with a reduced ability to react intuitively when an emergency occurs. As Carr readily concedes, technological improvements to air travel have made air disasters increasingly rare. But he sees a “dark footnote” to this good news: a new kind of accident in which automation is implicated. Tellingly, the National Transportation Safety Board’s report on a Continental Connection commuter flight that crashed near Buffalo, New York, in 2009 noted that, after cockpit warnings sounded, the captain’s response “should have been automatic.” Instead, the pilots became confused and, lacking situational awareness, reacted poorly, causing the plane to crash and killing everyone on board. A similar fog of confusion enveloped the crew of Air France Flight 447, which crashed into the ocean on a flight from Rio de Janeiro to Paris in the summer of 2009, killing all on board. These assertions were made in September 2014, so are not derived from a Monday morning quarterback session commenting on the Air Asia disaster.	WalOne (4202)
1391305	2015-01-04 06:38:00	Ah yes, Freddie Laker I took a Laker flight from Manchester to Malaga in 1978. There were absolutely NO checks made on people before they boarded. I couldn't believe it because the age of bombs-on-planes was definitely underway The airport authority said that checks were the airline's responsibility. Nothing to do with the airport or anyone else. And Freddie Laker being a budget carrier didn't want to pay for checks On another flight, back to the UK from the US, Freddie diverted our 747 from landing at London to landing at Manchester so that he could aggregate different flights through customs and save money	BBCmicro (15761)
1391306	2015-01-04 07:39:00	Pretty good excuse when you think back to Pan Am and Freddie Laker. I initially only scanned your post and thought what the hell had Fred Ladd to do with Juan Trippe or Najeeb Halaby (or Queen Noor even)? Senior moment :p before I realised it was Laker, not Ladd ... The last time I saw Fred (he of a-shower-of-****-and-this-is-it fame) Ladd was at Auckland airport to welcome Jack Winefield, a long time arch rival and great buddy, captaining his final V807 flight. Fred had parked his Grumman Widgeon on the tarmac next to Jack's V807, and as Jack was traditionally carried down the stairs to his waiting wheelchair, Fred performed a handstand on top of the wing of the Grumman. On his final V807 flight, NAC had authorised a farewell salute over Auckland city. The gossip was that Jack was to copy his rival Fred's stunt of flying under the Auckland Harbour Bridge - but in a four engined V807 full of passengers. NAC weren't taking any chances and rostered their senior V807 Training Captain (Tom Mounsey) as co-pilot. Just in case ... I guess all these characters have passed on, and the aviation world is poorer for it. But our local heroes can certainly stand tall alongside the Trippes, and Lakers of the world. :D	WalOne (4202)
1391307	2015-01-04 17:07:00	A Wasp helicopter has flown under the Auckers harbor bridge by a pilot called Joe Tunnicliffe. Although it was 6" above the deck of HMNZS Canterbury	prefect (6291)
1391308	2015-01-04 20:49:00	This comment from a reviewer of a new book The Glass Cage: Automation and Us By Nicholas Carr is topical . Whilst a little lengthy, it is worthwhile reading (emphasis mine): These assertions were made in September 2014, so are not derived from a Monday morning quarterback session commenting on the Air Asia disaster . Interesting article Wal . A family friend who flew 777’s when Airbus were having all their teething troubles had a saying “If it ain’t Boeing, I ain’t going” . He claimed he could fly a 777 upside down if he wanted to but an Airbus would just give you a message “Declined, you are operating outside parameters” . I think he may have been exaggerating a bit but the message was clear . :D Personally I have deep reservations about these Indonesians, but how do you get to fly when you don’t have permission? I can’t understand how matters from bookings to Air Traffic Control never picked up on this yet they want to blame it for the disaster . :confused: Crashed AirAsia jet should not have been on route . ( . nzherald . co . nz/world/news/article . cfm?c_id=2&objectid=11381881" target="_blank">www . nzherald . co . nz)	B.M. (505)
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