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Thread ID: 138761	2015-01-20 04:37:00	This will cause a stir - your Free AV may contain infections	wainuitech (129)	PC World Chat

Post ID	Timestamp	Content	User
1392380	2015-01-21 01:02:00	TL;DR - I still think defender coupled with malwarebytes and an occasional online scan is good enough for more careful users. I still maintain most of the cause of the badly infected machines is the unsafe practices of the users and is beyond the capabilities of any protection software to fully protect from. In my view optional software should be made opt-in only as a legal requirement rather than opt-out as is current practice. Much like what was done to banks with credit card limits, they can offer it to you but unless you accept it nothing changes whereas it used to automatically assume acceptance unless you opted out. On a prompt from this thread I ran malwarebytes last night. Had to update the program and the definitions first. I've used nothing but inbuilt defender since sometime last year. I don't recall the last time I did this, might have been last time we had a thread on malware :) Anyway 0 items found, I took a screenshot I'll happily post from home if you'd like proof. Tonight I might do the nod32 online scan as well. These threads prompt me to tighten up my lax practices for a month or two :) If you read my whole post you will know I am not and have not advocated using defender by itself or trying to say it is as good as NOD32. What I'm disputing is your comment that you might as well use nothing. Considering it succeeds on detecting 82% of current malware and actually has a near 100% success rate at removing what it does detect the badly infected examples you mention are what happens when around 18% of malware gets through. Imagine how quickly and thoroughly borked they would be with nothing at all. However long the PC has successfully run before needing your attention is largely due to defender or MSSE not in spite of it. With nothing protecting them some people can't last a day (personal experience here, fixed a PC for someone and they screwed it up with malware overnight). Microsoft themselves have stated it should be considered a baseline or bare minimum and recommend you don't rely on it solely. www.pcpro.co.uk	dugimodo (138)
1392381	2015-01-21 01:17:00	What I'm disputing is your comment that you might as well use nothing. Considering it succeeds on detecting 82% of current malware and actually has a near 100% success rate at removing what it does detect the badly infected examples you mention are what happens when around 18% of malware gets through. Dispute all you like, I'll stick with proof thanks. Please explain then as described in the previous posts ( and screen shot) if MSSE is that good WHY did the computer have so many nasty infections including rootkits, trojans, AND MSSE said it was clean ? Sorry to say but one persons experiences in not having infections means nothing when I see it EVERY week several times. In the link provided, its basically back pedaling saying its not that good and cant be trusted. Bare minimum - should at least catch known active infections.	wainuitech (129)
1392382	2015-01-21 01:40:00	It's frustrating because I don't really think we're disagreeing all that much. You're missing my point. I did not say MSSE was good. I said it was better than nothing and when used with other free software can be adequate. You claimed you may as well use nothing, I'm saying if you did that the infections would be much worse or happen much more quickly. My problem is with people calling things useless that do actually work (within their limitations), are free, and do not claim to match the paid software in the first place. We are not disagreeing that NOD32 is better or that it's worth a recommendation. I absolutely agree that customers that have problems with malware should upgrade to a better paid solution like NOD32. But for those who don't have malware problems and who use the other free tools available to back it up defender does a good enough job. If you want proof disable all protection and give the PC back to your customer and see how long that lasts. I doubt you'd risk it and neither would I. Why did it have so much malware? because 18% of a huge amount of malware is still a lot of malware, because many people simply don't understand the things they shouldn't do, or don't read when installing, or click on fake warnings, or visit dodgy websites. For those people give them the best protection software you can find and try to educate them but don't be surprised if even then they still manage to infect their PC with something.	dugimodo (138)
1392383	2015-01-21 01:44:00	Dispute all you like, I'll stick with proof thanks. Please explain then as described in the previous posts ( and screen shot) if MSSE is that good WHY did the computer have so many nasty infections including rootkits, trojans, AND MSSE said it was clean ? Sorry to say but one persons experiences in not having infections means nothing when I see it EVERY week several times. You could look at it another way, Wainui, in that you mainly see the computers that have problems, you are not likely so much to see those that don't :banana Like Dugimodo, I dutifully run Malwarebytes (Premium now), Windows Defender and one or two other anti-malware progs, and every now and again use the Nod32 online scan. Nothing ever turns up except for the odd false positive, like Nod32 this morning that said the sys info program SIW was a win32 remote access variant nasty which of course it isn't. It seems to me that the people who get infected the most are those who are click happy and who are obsessed with forwarding junk to everyone in their address books, I have some relations like that whose emails I have to be careful with. When I had a folder full of cunning DOS utilities the AV programs used to go berserk :)	Terry Porritt (14)
1392384	2015-01-21 03:32:00	You could look at it another way, Wainui, in that you mainly see the computers that have problems, you are not likely so much to see those that don't :banana No he sees heaps of assorted ones. Like I used to. I scanned them all - regardless of the issues, some didn't, some did. Most that did, di have careless users. But even my own PC, which nothing is ever detected on - has NOD32 and various other antimalware things.......NOD flags the odd website...I would never have nothing, no matter how smart I think I am - it's like sex with strangers without condoms....	pctek (84)
1392385	2015-01-21 03:56:00	No Antivirus is perfect, if there was such a thing then it would be used exclusively by everyone . The problem people are having is if something does come along, then some AV's wont stop them, even well known infections . The AV's should stop them BEFORE entering not after the problem arises . People who work with Computers, or have the knowledge ( not the ones who "know all about computers" -- Yet to see or know anyone who does) will generally be OK, as they know what not to do - (referring to Dug in that comment) :) some others will simply click next next etc . I've just gotten back from a persons place the guy who brought the W8 . 1 at Xmas -- its got obvious infections, rogue programs . Please Note I say infections NOT Viruses . Infections can be anything that's installed without the persons knowledge Eg PUPS . Almost all the antivirus software, paid or free by default has PUP detection disabled - yet this is the main source of infections getting in . Who wants all the pop ups saying you have X number of problems when the actual problem is the program that jumped on when you weren't looking . Its also not visiting devious sites either . The W8 . 1 computer which only had the inbuilt AV because he was told it doesn't need anything else, I looked at the history, it had never been cleared since it was first started (3 weeks ago) the worst site the guy had been to was youtube, all the others were either news sites in NZ & England, and places like Sparks site . I've just installed Malwarebytes after uninstalling the base programs relating to the infections, its doing a scan, found some items but what they are I have not looked . As PCTek mentions -- See plenty of Computers that are not infected, there's more to repairing / Services than infections . :nerd:	wainuitech (129)
1392386	2015-01-21 06:08:00	How is this news? Programs have been bundling annoying but relatively harmless crap for years.... Provided there is an option to opt-out, and it functions - I don't personally care, anyway.	Agent_24 (57)
1392387	2015-01-21 06:12:00	How is this news? Programs have been bundling annoying but relatively harmless crap for years.... Because in the past the PUPS have been part of A lot of Free Programs. Its only recent that Free Antivirus Programs are adding them.	wainuitech (129)
1392388	2015-01-25 09:27:00	You got me going there for a while WT, because I am still using MSE, so I ran a full scan with the free online offering from ESET/NOD32 to see what it might find. It ran the whole nine yards, including archived partitions, and after an hour & 30 minutes it had listed nine benign files that it suggested I could delete if I wished, but no threats were found. Virtues of clean living and trusting nothing! Cheers Billy 8-{) :thumbs:	Billy T (70)
1392389	2015-01-26 02:46:00	I was using MSE, downloaded NOD32, found 31 infections, mostly PUPs (which I thought I had uninstalled and cleared...) Even had some infections from a few FSX addons I installed.	sahilcc7 (15483)
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