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| Thread ID: 70413 | 2006-07-02 09:12:00 | Various Problems on an old PC | straka01 (310) | Press F1 |
| Post ID | Timestamp | Content | User | ||
| 468007 | 2006-07-03 09:15:00 | There are lots of people out there who can't afford a computer and a P200 (albeit old), would introduce them to computers and the internet (with a firewall on of course, iptables ain't no use to Windows users). Its a shame that so many working pc's end up at the tip because people want late model pc's. | dolby digital (5073) | ||
| 468008 | 2006-07-03 10:04:00 | I would be interested to know exactly why you think firewalls on home PCs are useless. Please explain in depth. A conventional firewall is useless on a home PC for three main reasons: 1. Attempting to access a port only works if that port is open. Assuming that you have the ability to disable unnecessary services, firewalls will not help you to prevent access to nonexistant services. OK, the ping of death might be prevented by a firewall, but faults at the application level are the real problem. 2. Any administrator user (i.e. software running as that user) can bypass any software controls installed on the PC. Period. Since it is the default in Windows and most home users have only administrator level accounts, software running on the local machine cannot prevent malicious software from using the network. 3. In any single user situation the services required for that user to operate must be running. Any applications the user doesn't need can be enabled and disabled just as easily as opening and closing ports in a firewall - there's no real difference. A firewall blocks access to services which shouldn't be running at all. In a large network it is sensible to do this kind of filtering at the bottlenecks to control methods of access into the network but on a home PC the same effect can be had simply by enabling and disabling services listening on those ports. I have to confess that home desktop firewalls have one practical use: they force users to be a bit more aware that services are exposed to the internet, even if very few of them have any idea why that can be a risk at all. As a technical measure for security though, they serve no real purpose. For those who have inquired, I don't work in the security industry at all. My one advantage is that I enjoy pulling systems apart and have been teaching myself computer concepts including programming and networking since childhood. I don't want to make a fuss of it or people will start crying "zealot", but I prefer to avoid the Windows scene altogether. I run a Suse linux desktop, never conduct everyday business as an administrator, use protective jails to further restrict the privileges of running services, and have never been exposed to any serious security threat. Hopefully with Windows Vista we will see users running with restricted privileges in the same manner as MS have promised they will. Maybe then not every worm can come along and simply open up the port of its choice and listen for commands. Perhaps I'm missing something. Perhaps somebody can come up with a reason why a device designed for controlling access to private networks is useful tacked on to a home PC. If there is a valid reason, it's a mystery to me. |
TGoddard (7263) | ||
| 468009 | 2006-07-03 10:30:00 | firewalls... very quickly, 1st, hide the pc off the net. if your not easily found less chance of being targeted. 2nd, block those unnecessary connections to services that you have to have running. 3rd, block unnecessary service's that is installed by default but the user has no idea how to turn off. 4th, most important one, some form of identification and control of what access the net from their own pc. the real problem is security doesn't sell an OS, ease of use and features do. even some linux distro's are becoming 'flawed' and running everything in admin account by default. vista should be an improvement but really XP should have been like that. the big problem is that the pc industry has it head the sand, takes a long time to realise there is a problem and even longer to do anything about it. people are not geeks and have no idea of what is running on their pc's hence the need for tools that help them. the catch is the pc industry has a whole lot of people promoting unsafe practises, no doubt for their own gain. eg it used to be "you don't need AV" ,then "spyware isn't a problem", then "you don't need firewalls" and no doubt it will be "you don't need to run user accounts, running in admin is ok" |
tweak'e (69) | ||
| 468010 | 2006-07-03 10:34:00 | The reality is you need a firewall on Windows unless you have XP with SP2; even then its fairly basic in its operation. Even Linux operate firewalls even though you may not (ever heard of lokkit). It is NOT good advice to tell people not to run a firewall. Actually the reverse is true to what you say, people need to run firewalls on home pc's connected directly to the internet, most corporate pc's don't run a firewall, they are protected by software or hardware firewalls on the network. |
dolby digital (5073) | ||
| 468011 | 2006-07-03 11:37:00 | All those four points are valid, although perhaps a more user-friendly service manager would solve the problem more thoroughly. I guess these problems will be with us for as long as computers remain 'magical'. To clarify this dolby, I was talking about 'hardware' firewalls for the large networks. I was saying that these dedicated boxes do perform a useful role at the multi-computer network level but that software firewalls on home PCs aren't useful. |
TGoddard (7263) | ||
| 468012 | 2006-07-03 11:56:00 | Oh, some of you are wicked wicked people! I have just put my poor "Old Faithful" P166 W98 (original) computer to bed crying her poor eyes out over the nasty things that have been said about her family and friends . She has given faithful service for nearly 10 years now, protected by her faithful friends ZoneAlarm and NAV, and never once a virus or trojan or worm or any other infection . She has been online 12-16 hours a day 7 days a week over that time, starting on dial up but she went onto that new fangled Jetstream as soon as it arrived and still hasn't had a problem . A few nasties have tried to get through, but none ever got past the gatekeepers . Maybe some of your younger computers hang out with the wrong crowd, or leave their doors & windows open at night! Cheers Billy 8-{) :( |
Billy T (70) | ||
| 468013 | 2006-07-03 20:26:00 | Assuming that you have the ability to disable unnecessary services, firewalls will not help you to prevent access to nonexistant services . 2 . Any administrator user can bypass any software controls installed on the PC . Period . Since it is the default in Windows and most home users have only administrator level accounts, software running on the local machine cannot prevent malicious software from using the network . Any applications the user doesn't need can be enabled and disabled just as easily as opening and closing ports in a firewall - there's no real difference . For those who have inquired, I don't work in the security industry at all . My one advantage is that I enjoy pulling systems apart and have been teaching myself computer concepts including programming and networking since childhood . As if we are surprised you don't work in security . If you did you'd know better . Every man and his dog has taught himself at home . A little knowledge is dangerous, because you think you know what you are talking about . What you have said is rubbish . For instance my own PC has a firewall, I have most services disabled but there are some things I use but don't wish them to access the interent . Like: MS Word MS Excel Acrobat Reader MS Help Hosting Center Nero PowerDVD Windows Explorer Among other components of Windows itself . Its been very effective an disallowing access . The software firewall is not my only firewall, nor is it my only defense . I always recommend home users run: An AV At least 2 antispywares A firewall other than XPs As a minimum . And I show them how to use them too, especially the firewall . A firewall incorrectly configured is useless but set up right it is part of their defenses . |
pctek (84) | ||
| 468014 | 2006-07-03 21:34:00 | Without a firewall I'd have to wonder how to block inadvertant dialers or trojans calling out - what 'service' would you disable to prevent them doing malicious stuff? | Greg (193) | ||
| 468015 | 2006-07-03 22:11:00 | And back to the main purpose of this thread, has there been any resolution in the WIN98 computer in question? Or has it been drowned out by the firewall conversation that erupted midway? I regard nearly everyone's opinion and you have all been helpful in my own pc repairs but move to a new thread guys (any gals?) and let this one focus. :illogical Thank you. |
mantermite (9652) | ||
| 468016 | 2006-07-04 00:39:00 | Have a look at this webpage: www.millbury.k12.ma.us Are you using the serial ports on the PC? If not I'd disable them in the BIOS. Especially COM2. COM1 should be ok. Try what I said before with the floppy. As for the sound driver, its doing it because it can't find the right driver. Download the correct one and install it and Windows will stop trying. Make sure you remove any incorrect ones its tried first. |
pctek (84) | ||
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