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Thread ID: 139334	2015-04-16 05:31:00	19th Century Technology vs 21st Century: rail vs driverless cars	WalOne (4202)	PC World Chat

Post ID	Timestamp	Content	User
1398667	2015-04-16 05:31:00	Imagine if we devoted the more than $3 billion proposed for the rail loop into investment in supporting infrastructure and incentives to get Google etc down here to implement driverless cars? Sceptics say the autonomous car has always been 10 years away. But now it really does seem imminent. The Google car – a cute anthropomorphic turret-topped bubble – has clocked up almost 1 million driverless kilometres around Silicon Valley. This is roughly twice the average driver’s accident-free mileage and all of its dents, they say, arise from (other) driver error. Three other prototypes are also driving around British cities. Naturally, there are challenges. Road deaths reliably shock us but what’s really amazing, as any aerial video shows, is how many accidents we don’t have. This is due to human subtlety – seeing, sensing, adjusting, learning, signalling. The challenge is to replicate these traits in a machine. So driverless cars combines lidar, radar, GPS, scanning, 3D-imaging and learning technologies. The car also makes judgment calls: when to run an orange light; at what point proximity becomes tailgating and, at an uncontrolled four-way intersection, when other drivers’ “nudging” signals incipient movement. Google car’s rooftop laser emits 64 beams 10 times a second, scanning 1.3 million points in concentric waves to detect a cat-size object 50 metres away. Those who experience the ride say it feels more courtly than aggressive. Sensing roadwork or accident ahead, the car will gently prompt you to “resume manual control”. There’s also a big red manual override button, for that purpose. This is huge. Inside a few years, older citizens will no longer fear losing their driver’s licence, since the press of a button will have them delivered like pods in a vacuum chute to hairdresser, dentist or dialysis, possibly all at once. But that’s just the tip of the driverless car iceberg. Consider the impact on houses, streets, cities and economies. Imagine if we devoted the more than $3 billion proposed for the rail loop into investment in supporting infrastructure and incentives to get Google etc down here to implement driverless cars? 19th century technology vs 21st century… Restricted to fixed steel lanes with expensive expansion options, or flexible travel anywhere on roads that are way cheaper to build and extend… Gone the snarl of traffic signs entangling our streets. Gone, too, speed-infringement anxiety caused by rapid-fire limit shifts where an eye blink, in unvarying road conditions, can transgress speed zones and cost you $250. Car-parking buildings will shrink, being mere robot-stackers and, since the driverless car can easily self-charge and need no longer be thrilling, electricity will quickly become the dominant fuel. Since driverless cars stop easily and safely, the tailgating danger will be more emotional than real, so traffic will be denser as well as safer. This means roads can be narrower… The next revolution will be in transporting freight. Self-driving trucks do not have to sleep. Regular deliveries and courier runs will be perfect for point to point self-drive delivery vehicles. I wouldn’t quite entrust the self-drive truck with a load of logs coming out of a forest just yet, but once on proper roading, it can find its own way to the plant or port. The thing is, with vision, you can prepare a city, a country, for what’s a head. Or you can spend an eye watering amount of money putting in rail that benefits few, isn’t flexible, and represents technology that’s already two centuries old. – Elizabeth Farrelly, SMH Makes sense to me. Quoted from Whaleoil today :thumbs::thumbs::thumbs:	WalOne (4202)
1398668	2015-04-16 06:38:00	I do wonder: why all trains aren't fully automated yet.....?	Cato (6936)
1398669	2015-04-16 06:39:00	The car also makes judgment calls: when to run an orange light; Can just see it now :D Wasn't me offissorrrrrr The car ran the light I was laying back enjoying the view hic hic. Theres a point :illogical-- Does it pull over if a cop pulls up behind lights flashing or waves you in at a check -point ? ;)	wainuitech (129)
1398670	2015-04-16 06:45:00	I do wonder: why all trains aren't fully automated yet.....? Read that the reason trains aren't automated is that cameras can't pick out hazards a half k or so away.	Whenu (9358)
1398671	2015-04-16 06:58:00	I still don't see the point in driverless cars...	pcuser42 (130)
1398672	2015-04-16 07:08:00	Read that the reason trains aren't automated is that cameras can't pick out hazards a half k or so away. Probably right, but cars can come to a standstill more readily, the article stated the car's sensors can pick up a cat size object at 50m. Cat and possum haters could possibly have the feature disabled ... :devil Just yesterday I paid the Police $60 for 2 speed camera fines when snapped by a camera in Wellsford last month. The dastardly thing caught me northbound and then later southbound. So in theory, the car would drive to the limits (or conditions) and I'd be safe from getting pinged :(	WalOne (4202)
1398673	2015-04-16 07:18:00	I still don't see the point in driverless cars... The ultimate flexibility of getting from A to B where Len's train set doesn't have trains and the convenience of moving away from a hub and spoke transport system that died a natural with decentralisation; the ultimate ability to keep the roading network moving without the constraints of congestion; the ultimate ability to deal with (or to) overly cautious drivers; dealing with (or to) rubber neckers and those infuriating drivers who just refuse to learn how to merge ... That's just for starters :)	WalOne (4202)
1398674	2015-04-16 07:35:00	The ultimate flexibility of getting from A to B where Len's train set doesn't have trains and the convenience of moving away from a hub and spoke transport system that died a natural with decentralisation; the ultimate ability to keep the roading network moving without the constraints of congestion; the ultimate ability to deal with (or to) overly cautious drivers; dealing with (or to) rubber neckers and those infuriating drivers who just refuse to learn how to merge ... That's just for starters :) Or you could just run buses where the trains don't go. Driverless cars don't actually solve the congestion problem at all, they don't take anything off the roads. Buses and trains do. The rest of it is solved by taking public transport, like you can now :D EDIT: In fact driverless cars will just serve to make congestion worse. transportblog.co.nz	pcuser42 (130)
1398675	2015-04-16 08:05:00	Or you could just run buses where the trains don't go . If the geography of the area is hourglass shaped, as in Auckland, that's just about everywhere . Even with buses, a vision impaired friend who is dependent on public transport spent 85 minutes last weekend - off peak - travelling from Mt Wellington to Browns Bay last weekend . Is that really an option? It's a major flaw in a hub and spoke system . Driverless cars don't actually solve the congestion problem at all, they don't take anything off the roads . Buses and trains do . Congestion in the main is caused by car drivers not being savvy enough to judge their distances and speeds - professional drivers excluded, except courier drivers - and concentrate on the environment and all it entails . Take away those by the use of driverless cars and voila! The rest of it is solved by taking public transport, like you can now :D I regularly travel from Ellerslie into the CBD, and I use train or bus . Because I'm travelling to that destination, it's convenient, faster, and less expensive rather than having to drive, find and pay for a car park . Weekend at Waiheke? Likewise - train or bus to Britomart, 5 minute walk to the Ferry (most of that 5 minutes taken up waiting for the "Walk" signal at the lights) . Apart from that convenient hub, the system fails .	WalOne (4202)
1398676	2015-04-16 08:25:00	If the geography of the area is hourglass shaped, as in Auckland, that's just about everywhere. Even with buses, a vision impaired friend who is dependent on public transport spent 85 minutes last weekend - off peak - travelling from Mt Wellington to Browns Bay last weekend. Is that really an option? It's a major flaw in a hub and spoke system. That's what the Congestion Free Network is aiming to solve - dedicated right of ways for buses along with more railways to speed journeys up. Congestion in the main is caused by car drivers not being savvy enough to judge their distances and speeds - professional drivers excluded, except courier drivers - and concentrate on the environment and all it entails. Take away those by the use of driverless cars and voila! Partially, but not entirely. Put more cars on the road without increasing the capacity and you get congestion, something Wellington proved when the rail line was washed away a few years ago. Take everyone off trains and put them into driverless cars and I guarantee you'll see chaos and a carpark where State Highway 1 used to be. I regularly travel from Ellerslie into the CBD, and I use train or bus. Because I'm travelling to that destination, it's convenient, faster, and less expensive rather than having to drive, find and pay for a car park. Weekend at Waiheke? Likewise - train or bus to Britomart, 5 minute walk to the Ferry (most of that 5 minutes taken up waiting for the "Walk" signal at the lights). Apart from that convenient hub, the system fails. I commute from Papakura to Manukau, and although it's not the most direct route by train it still beats driving by far - I arrive at work relaxed instead of annoyed by other motorists. There's more factors than just time ;)	pcuser42 (130)
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