| Forum Home | ||||
| Press F1 | ||||
| Thread ID: 75986 | 2007-01-17 00:15:00 | Hotlama Question | SurferJoe46 (51) | Press F1 |
| Post ID | Timestamp | Content | User | ||
| 516671 | 2007-02-23 07:54:00 | Anonymous it may be, but does that make it ethical? How would you feel if your computer suddenly started connecting to a remote site, for no apparant reason and with no warning, and started giving away details of your movie-watching habits? It is common courtesy to ask first . Rubbish . The only tracking websites can to is through sessions, user accounts and cookies . Sessions are limited to the current site only, large-scale user accounts such as msn passport / google are opt-in, and cookies are under the strict control of the user's browser, with the option of disabling them completely and/or periodically removing them . HOTLLAMA on the other hand appears to proactively make connections to your servers without obviously asking for consent . I don't think you read the "Terms" and "Privacy Policy" that is displayed during installation, it's OK, I don't either . Not to mention that the tracking only occurs on a HOTLLAMA Disc; if the user plays a non-powered DVD such as Star Wars, there is no tracking, we have no interest either way . Our client's might however, but they are major motion pictures studios who can't afford to be involved with a malicious software company . If we were malicious, we wouldn't be still be in business . Oh, and you are a bit misinformed as to how much as website does track your every move . Host your own site with a decent provider, and I assure you that it comes with web usage reporting, down to the city, IP Address, heck even some software you have on your system . We don't track any of that, only a click, that's it . We don't care from who, where, or why, just how many times a click is hit, you can opt out . . . No website can claim such anonymous usage tracking (with or without cookies), and most software on your computer isn't that innocent either - just because your firewall software doesn't alert you doesn't mean that a multi-billion dollar company doesn't know whether or not you have been honest with your installation . . . your PC operating system is getting caugh and calls fixes "security patches", but an OS isn't the only thing phoning home, you just aren't aware of it - sad if you ask me . At anyrate, regardless of opinion, we have never been malicious, and never will be . We passed a McAfee, Symantec, Trend Micro, SpyBot, and Softpedia spyware/malware/virus/adware check, and have been added to their whitelists as necessary . Sorry if I sound defensive, it was not my intention . People say the worst things about anything they want to, heck I guess our company isn't exempt from accusations . My two cents . . . who cares :-) |
HOTLLAMASupport (11780) | ||
| 516672 | 2007-02-23 08:31:00 | Spyware. Plain and simple. No way in hell would I let your poison install on one of my systems, Lookm at the lengths you have gone to to hide the damn thing once its on there. Pretty much the reason I have auto-play disables and rip the movie straight off the disc even on DVD's that I own. Damn shame that the attitude and actions of the "major studios" make this a required action. Your doing your best to promote the tools that rip your content, You ****4brains God help us all if we one day purchased a movie and thats all we got, what we wanted rather then the utter **** that they want to put on your PC and which is in no way related to your purchases or warranted in any damn way. Hell. Rot. In. |
Metla (12) | ||
| 516673 | 2007-02-23 10:11:00 | Spyware. Plain and simple. I think that has been decided pretty well :) It's close enough anyway.... Hell. Rot. In. Hear Hear :thumbs: |
Dannz (1668) | ||
| 516674 | 2007-02-23 10:32:00 | I don't think you read the "Terms" and "Privacy Policy" that is displayed during installation, it's OK, I don't either.My point exactly. Burying a notice in the smallprint of a EULA is completely unethical, as most people don't read them. If you are really intending to warn the end user, devoting a separate screen of the installation wizard to a warning would be more appropriate. It would also be common courtesy to offer an opt-out checkbox. ...but they are major motion pictures studios who can't afford to be involved with a malicious software company. If we were malicious, we wouldn't be still be in business. Wrong. It is precisely because they are major motion picture studios that they can get away with it. If they were a small company, they might not be able to cope with the loss of custom (although I wouldn't bet on it). However to a large studio, this loss is a drop in the bucket. Oh, and you are a bit misinformed as to how much as website does track your every move. Host your own site with a decent provider, and I assure you that it comes with web usage reporting, down to the city, IP Address, heck even some software you have on your system.I do - and I know just how much can be logged from a click. However that doesn't construe tracking. And the only way to track is via sessions, cookies, or a consistant login to tie all these click points together. Without a tracking mechanism all you have are one-shot points that don't get you much in the way of useful data. This point is also somewhat of a red herring - you cannot justify your actions by saying "look at them, they're doing it too - so it must be ok for us as well". We don't track any of that, only a click, that's it. We don't care from who, where, or why, just how many times a click is hit, you can opt out...It isn't possible to opt-out of website hit-logging. Either it's all logged, or none of it is. No website can claim such anonymous usage tracking (with or without cookies)Yes, it can. Take a look at the way some of the major online advertising companies use cookies and then tell me it's not possible. I use a limited method of cookie-based session tracking on my own site, but cross-site tracking is certainly possible too. ...and most software on your computer isn't that innocent either - just because your firewall software doesn't alert you doesn't mean that a multi-billion dollar company doesn't know whether or not you have been honest with your installation... your PC operating system is getting caugh and calls fixes "security patches", but an OS isn't the only thing phoning home, you just aren't aware of it - sad if you ask me.Utter rubbish. What I consider sad is that applications will even attempt this without properly alerting the user. For your typical Windows user, a properly set up firewall will block any unauthorised outgoing traffic - INCLUDING windows update. And as a fulltime Linux user, I challenge you to find a single piece of software on my system that "isn't that innocent", or phones home without my authorisation to do so. Again, this is a moot point - just because others are doing it does not make it ok for you to follow suit! At anyrate, regardless of opinion, we have never been malicious, and never will be.That depends on your definition. In my opinion, unauthorised phoning home without a very clear warning is malicious. I do not consider EULA fine print to be a very clear warning. We passed a McAfee, Symantec, Trend Micro, SpyBot, and Softpedia spyware/malware/virus/adware check, and have been added to their whitelists as necessary.This will be because HotLlama is not a virus, actually does something potentially useful, and has a buried statement in the EULA. It is however something of a grey line, and not entirely ethical. Sorry if I sound defensive, it was not my intention. People say the worst things about anything they want to, heck I guess our company isn't exempt from accusations. You do indeed sound defensive, and I believe that to have been your intention from the beginning. I do however admire your corporate loyalty - you have done a reasonably good job at defending your product from criticism (as you should do :D) My two cents...over to you. |
Erayd (23) | ||
| 516675 | 2007-02-23 10:43:00 | I pay for all my data up and down, as does just about everyone. For a company to use my data cap with out asking that I have to pay for is both stealing and rude, even if it is just a few bytes here and there. | Rob99 (151) | ||
| 516676 | 2007-02-23 16:38:00 | I pay for all my data up and down, as does just about everyone . For a company to use my data cap with out asking that I have to pay for is both stealing and rude, even if it is just a few bytes here and there . WOW . . . I guess I set the world on fire with this original post . But you have to ask yourselves: Since when does the MPAA or RIAA use moral judgment as a credo while stealing and rudeness are things they accuse everyone else of doing to poor little them? A larger conglomeration of knee-breakers and thugs you'll not meet except in old James Cagney movies and the Elliot Ness "The Untouchables" series . I suspect there might be a Meyer/Zanuck in the HOTLLAMASupport fuel supply . |
SurferJoe46 (51) | ||
| 516677 | 2007-02-23 17:16:00 | Now...let me take a whack at this guy..the RED lines are mine..OK? Hi there, (That's fairly safe so far) I created the HOTLLAMA Player, and I assure you that we did not force ourselves onto your computer. (Yes you did) We come bundled on some major motion picture DVD's, ( Can you say: "Sony?" Can you say: "Rootkit?" Can you say: "Caught with their pants down by the EU?") and could not stay in business if we were malicious (Does not compute...considering the source of the reply) (Since it's the major studios that are paying our bills...)(..and since when do the studios NOT pay for enforcers and hit men? You are just in the same lineup, or should be, of a long list of thugs.) So sir, someone in your household inserted a DVD that we are on, (I am the ONLY person on this system...don't get me angry or I'll sic my alter-ego on you!) saw the prompt to install the HOTLLAMA Player, (Oh..yeah?...and where did this flash onto my screen?) and did so (I did NOT!....and you're gonna get my alter ego [My evil twin: "Skippy"] mad now!). The HOTLLAMA Player isn't going to compete with your 'Paid' player, (you're right..it TOOK OVER by itself! No competition by way of banishing my original player.) but rather it allows you to view protected exclusive content provided on the DVD that is not viewable from a regular DVD Player. The fact that we can also play the DVD's is only added as a convenience (for whom?..not ME!). That is all. (No..that's too much..who's gonna pay me for my time to remove this crap? Where do I send the bill? Name/address/zip code : Attn to WHOM?) Lastly, as to the accusations of Spyware (Definition(s) of "Spyware: "Any software that covertly gathers user information through the user's Internet connection without his or her knowledge, usually for advertising purposes. Spyware applications are typically bundled as a hidden component of freeware or shareware programs that can be downloaded from the Internet. Once installed, the spyware monitors user activity on the Internet and transmits that information in the background to someone else. ...", [from: www.tjiss.net/glossary_s.html] "A general term for a class of software that monitors the actions of a computer user. This software falls into a number of categories: Software that may be installed legitimately to provide security or workplace monitoring, software with relatively benign purposes that may be associated with marketing data collection and software that is maliciously installed, either as a general violation of a user’s privacy or to collect information to allow further attacks on their computer or online ..." [from: www.parliament.vic.gov.au/sarc/E-Democracy/Final_Report/Glossary.htm]...the studios want to know what features their viewers are interested in, and that's all. (And again with the "that's all" part? I don't want the "studios testing the waters in my boat...got out!) The features cost them a lot of money, (Hitler's Gestapo cost a lot too...is there a parallel you'd like to draw with me?) and if a director's cut for example is of no interest to the viewer, why add the feature then? (The same could be said of SPYWARE....Why add it if not for malicious purposes to satisfy the end of the "studios" spying on users?) Our tracking is no different then when a user visits any website, ANY website...completely safe and anonymous. (No it's not the same at all: You add this sneaky little sidebar comment to make things all cute and fuzzy by including yourselves in a blanket of "everybody else does it". If "everybody else jumped off ..well, that might be construed as inflammatory, so I'll stop here. I'm just gonna tell your momma that you've been looking under toilet stalls again.) |
SurferJoe46 (51) | ||
| 516678 | 2007-02-23 20:00:00 | Loving this thread! :lol: :thumbs: | Greg (193) | ||
| 1 2 | |||||