Forum Home
Press F1
Thread ID: 76914	2007-02-20 09:30:00	Vista: Isn't it Ridiculous!	Chemical Ali (118)	Press F1

Post ID	Timestamp	Content	User
526283	2007-02-26 09:26:00	Woops my above thread i have made an error it should read microsoft are releasing 1,600 drivers a month. Hers a link as to where i got this info. www.crn.com.au	Hitech (9024)
526284	2007-02-26 10:03:00	Edit: Motorbyclist, *** use a blimmin dictionary. Your first task is to look up contradictory. If you have any trouble comprehending it's meaning, get back to us, eh. There's also another small thing you should know, just because you repeat something often, doesn't make it so. Ok! firstly, i do know what contradictory means. what i was trying to say, although badly, was that i A: agree that MS marketing is misleading, and B: people should be allowed to buy the software at their own risk, assuming that people make informed decisions, and assuming that the people who simply buy it due to the hype will buy a dell/hp which is already pre-configured and working. In this way the people who want it now get it now and the people who want it 'finished' get it sooner. i still cannot understand how this is a bad thing for MS to do. their marketing ethics are (more-or-less) good business practice. You're right, repeating oneself doesn't change the truth, especially when the argument is a difference of opinion, but i believe i was misunderstood, and as such have reworded and repeated myself several times.	motorbyclist (188)
526285	2007-02-26 10:04:00	And a pox on the rest of you malingerers who've been arguing the toss rather than helping out poor old Chemical. :rolleyes: yea fair enough, we'll keep it for the next vista thread... or maybe i'll just sit that one out:rolleyes:	motorbyclist (188)
526286	2007-02-26 20:10:00	Still no luck with those drivers which installed fine and look like the real deal. Microsoft mouse program nad appns suite is installed fine -- just can't seem to 'mate' with the mouse and/or recognize it! Wondering if the mouse is faulty -- will test on another PC and advise. Cheers Chem	Chemical Ali (118)
526287	2007-02-26 23:05:00	firstly, i do know what contradictory means. what i was trying to say, although badly, was that i A: agree that MS marketing is misleading, and B: people should be allowed to buy the software at their own risk, assuming that people make informed decisions, Hmmm.... informed decision making is one of the points being made is it not. Can you show me where the informed consent is for the vast majority of Vistas' new users? and assuming that the people who simply buy it due to the hype will buy a dell/hp which is already pre-configured and working. You've been assuming all the way through this debate, but let's say you're correct in this. Are there no issues due to Vista with these machines? Will they run any other software or peripherals other than what is supplied by dell/hp? How does dell/hp protect their customers from bugs in the new OS, which we all no amount of "pre-configuring" is going to prevent? I also think that yo	Murray P (44)
526288	2007-02-26 23:35:00	firstly, i do know what contradictory means . what i was trying to say, although badly, was that i A: agree that MS marketing is misleading, and B: people should be allowed to buy the software at their own risk, assuming that people make informed decisions, Hmmm . . . . informed decision making is one of the points being made is it not . Can you show me where the informed consent is for the vast majority of Vistas' new users? and assuming that the people who simply buy it due to the hype will buy a dell/hp which is already pre-configured and working . You've been assuming all the way through this debate, but let's say you're correct in this . Are there no issues due to Vista with these machines? Will they run any other software or peripherals other than what is supplied by dell/hp? How does dell/hp protect their customers from bugs in the new OS, which we all no amount of "pre-configuring" is going to prevent? I also think that you're being a more than naive in believing that Dell, HP, et al would rock the MS marketing and money making boat, there being plenty of precedent that they will, if not screw over their customers, put their and parties such as MS's and Intel's interests well before those of their customers, even to the detriment of the latter . Besides that, there are still a hell of a lot of people purchasing Vista independent of Dell, HP, et al, are you trying to say they are all informed? If you are, that is just simply wrong . Again the vast majority will have very little idea of the pitfalls, will in fact be unaware beta testers . In this way the people who want it now get it now and the people who want it 'finished' get it sooner . i still cannot understand how this is a bad thing for MS to do . their marketing ethics are (more-or-less) good business practice . See, you're still being contradictory and ambiguous, the latter aiding the former . What do you want, people to get an unfinished product now or to wait? You have to realise that the people getting it now are largely the uninformed masses, including people purchasing purchasing Vista independently . You can't pluck what you perceive to be good bits that support your argument from here and there and stitch them together in the hope it comes together in a coherent whole, your admission of bad explanation is testament to that . It certainly ain't "a bad thing for MS to do", it's bloody good for them profit wise, but it ain't good for their customers, how could it be good to have defective software, you still haven't answered that . And please, don't trot out the tired old excuse that any business practice that brings in money is by definition "good business" . That's a fall back sop spewed out to justify what amounts to fraud in may cases and to ease the consciences of shareholders who profit by supporting iniquitous and nefarious "business practices" . It'd be merely empty rhetoric for the consumption of the simple minded if so much harm wasn't done behind that disingenuous mask; Adnan Khashoggi, tobacco companies, asbestos manufacturers, our own Telecom and developers throwing up sub-standard leaky apartments have all used "good business" or variants to justify their actions . So on that point, go take a flying F . You're right, repeating oneself doesn't change the truth, especially when the argument is a difference of opinion, but i believe i was misunderstood, and as such have reworded and repeated myself several times . Ummm, I'm still waiting for a coherent argument that tells me that providing defective, unfinished, software is good for anyone other than MS, although I concede that a few fanboys and girls are creaming their pants over Vista, so I guess it must be good for them at least, in a perverted sort of way . :lol:	Murray P (44)
526289	2007-02-26 23:37:00	Please excuse the partial double post. Saving edits is stalling for some reason.	Murray P (44)
526290	2007-02-27 03:11:00	Murray, are you ok bud?.......	SolMiester (139)
526291	2007-02-27 07:45:00	now i know it's long, but Murray, atleast read the last part Hmmm.... informed decision making is one of the points being made is it not. Can you show me where the informed consent is for the vast majority of Vistas' new users? i believe i said that was infact an issue, and that the uninformed users would largely be the ones to find vista fine. still an issue though You've been assuming all the way through this debate, but let's say you're correct in this. Are there no issues due to Vista with these machines? Will they run any other software or peripherals other than what is supplied by dell/hp? How does dell/hp protect their customers from bugs in the new OS, which we all no amount of "pre-configuring" is going to prevent? ah, good point I also think that you're being a more than naive in believing that Dell, HP, et al would rock the MS marketing and money making boat, there being plenty of precedent that they will, if not screw over their customers, put their and parties such as MS's and Intel's interests well before those of their customers, even to the detriment of the latter.i never said that, i've always been very strongly anti-dell, but i do admit that for people who simply buy a computer for web browsing/word processing and consider an upgrade to be replacing that computer dells/hps aren't too bad. Besides that, there are still a hell of a lot of people purchasing Vista independent of Dell, HP, et al, are you trying to say they are all informed? If you are, that is just simply wrong. Again the vast majority will have very little idea of the pitfalls, will in fact be unaware beta testers.then perhaps they might learn, or not. again, i do see this as an issue See, you're still being contradictory and ambiguous, the latter aiding the former. What do you want, people to get an unfinished product now or to wait? You have to realise that the people getting it now are largely the uninformed masses, including people purchasing purchasing Vista independently. You can't pluck what you perceive to be good bits that support your argument from here and there and stitch them together in the hope it comes together in a coherent whole, your admission of bad explanation is testament to that.ok, YET AGAIN here's the bit where i'm either badly wording it, or you simply cannot or will not consider it. I am saying that if we wait for a 'finished product', we won't see vista until 2010 at the earliest, and the cost would be even more horrendous. In this scenario no-one wins except for the people who are holding off on their purchase anyway, like you and me. By releasing the product now people who want it now get it now, and people who want it 'finished' still get it, but with several million testers we get the 'finished' product sooner. for us this is a good thing. for the uninformed masses, most will not find issues, and i'd hope the rest learn. this may be ethically unsound, letting the ignorant 'take one for the team', but it's just a computer ***, not exactly life threatening stuff, it's not like data will be corrupted and lives ruined; you just hit restart, and thank whoever decided to put that crash-restore feature in firefox, ms office, ie, etc etc. i know it's not perfect, but it's what has happened. It certainly ain't "a bad thing for MS to do", it's bloody good for them profit wise, but it ain't good for their customers, how could it be good to have defective software, you still haven't answered that.the uninformed masses won't realise this, and if they do, all the better. MS has always done this, as a result they have over 90% of the market. And please, don't trot out the tired old excuse that any business practice that brings in money is by definition "good business". That's a fall back sop spewed out to justify what amounts to fraud in may cases and to ease the consciences of shareholders who profit by supporting iniquitous and nefarious "business practices". It'd be merely empty rhetoric for the consumption of the simple minded if so much harm wasn't done behind that disingenuous mask; Adnan Khashoggi, tobacco companies, asbestos manufacturers, our own Telecom and developers throwing up sub-standard leaky apartments have all used "good business" or variants to justify their actions. So on that point, go take a flying F.oops, i think i just did, but a hardware incompatibility isn't exactly a leaky home or terminal cancer. still a pain, but only temporary Ummm, I'm still waiting for a coherent argument that tells me that providing defective, unfinished, software is good for anyone other than MS, although I concede that a few fanboys and girls are creaming their pants over Vista, so I guess it must be good for them at least, in a perverted sort of way. :lol: now i'm no fanboy, and as such i do listen, and can see that while you want the corporate world to act responsibly and ethically, they do not. i have resigned to this fact. it's good to see you're still kicking, i do hope you succeed in educating the masses for everyone's benefit, and would help you if you proposed a way that might actually work, but in the meantime our problem is that we both have different values/beleifs. as such what i find reasonable you do not. can we not just agree to disagree? as you said yourself this argument is doing no-one any good, so could we just leave it with what dignity we have remaining? also the fact that you have resorted to insults, weasel words and other defamatory practices does not strengthen your argument, but actually draws attention from it. it actually seems a bit hypocritical considering your post about me and (insert other members name here):( i don't mean to cause offense, but please don't do it, it only feeds the fire thats causes these lengthy retaliatory posts.	motorbyclist (188)
526292	2007-02-27 08:59:00	Murray, are you ok bud?....... Happy as as sand boy, why do you ask?	Murray P (44)
1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9