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Thread ID: 79563	2007-05-24 08:42:00	New Laptop Vista vs XP???	echothreezero (6612)	Press F1

Post ID	Timestamp	Content	User
552727	2007-05-29 19:51:00	For the record a new 17 PC laptop of the shop floor is actually more expensive than a 17" MacBook Pro. A lot of mid range 15" PC laptops are also priced fairly close to a 15" MacBook Pro as well. echothreezero says: "similarly specced machines for similar money on special, but the cheapest price on this actual unit I could find was around $2200 to $2400." ... and you will see in a post I made above a similar Mac costs $3800. Mac fanatics justify this giving details of Mac software but most pc users will already have software ready to transfer to their new pc, and that USA site that compared a Mac to a PC was full of MacCrap holes as well as not being relevant to NZ. In any case, the person who started this thread did NOT get a Mac, so there you have it.	Strommer (42)
552728	2007-05-29 20:53:00	You are quite correct in saying that echothrezero didn't get a Mac although he did say that he didn't mind the distraction of an off topic thread while he waited for his laptop to arrive. The Mac that he would have been looking at was the 15" MacBook Pro. Unfortunately Apple doesn't have anything in the price range between the 13" MacBook and the 15" MBP where there is quite a big price break unlike in the PC department where there a numerous models and specs to choose from. I am still waiting to see what multimedia apps he puts on his laptop.	winmacguy (3367)
552729	2007-05-30 08:27:00	Believe it or not they actually sell about 1.5million computers (manufactured in China by third party companies) in a quarter @ 30% profit margin which is the highest margin for computing hardware in the industry. Their computer sales also increase around 30% each year overall categories The average profit margin on computers is between 11-15% so they don't have to compete with PCs. The average PC sales growth world wide is about 12-15%. what i meant was, if they sell at a lower price, more people, like echothreezero, would buy and mac would do even more damage to microsoft, which one would hope would tell microsoft to stop screwing it's customer base around with this drm bull**** Actually it is Microsoft who used to sell Windows and Office with up to a 90% profit margin during the late 1990's.as did apple machines cost an arm, a leg and both kidneys. i wonder what the vista markup is lol... When looking at a Mac you have to include the OS because Apple is a hardware company that also does software. They are also the only computer company in the world that does every aspect of hardware design in house (Apple HQ, Cupertino, California). Manufacturing happens over in China. OS X is actually cheaper than Windows Vista Ultimate and doesn't have any restrictive DRM..but isn't osx inherently restrictive in hardware and software choice, locking you into their hardware. somewhat like a dell but worse (god i hate that company, hp too) No, they don't have to pay other companies for the software that comes in the iLife bundle because Apple own/control the rights to the various applications that come with iLife, and the iLife apps are Mac only (except for iTunes).but do we not pay for it in the cost of the os? it isn't technically free (although cheaper than rip-off vista) Unfortunately Mac hardware is somewhat more pricey in NZ than it is in the US although it is not as bad as it was 6 or 7 years ago. As long as you price up a store bought PC with a similar spec'd Mac you'll find the prices in the medium range machines to be close and Macs to be slightly cheaper in the high end work stations than similar specd PCs (not counting custom built game machines). Apple doesn't aim to compete in the sub $1,500 end of the market as the margins are too slim. the problem with mac prices, is that once you've bought a machine, the only way to keep up with the latest software/technology is to buy a new one. it works out cheaper to buy a pc - with lower initial cost, and occasionally upgrade ram, cpu, grahics as necessary (new amd skt AM3 cpus are meant to backward compatible too, making motherboard replacement a single component job:D)- than to buy a mac and then buy a new one, and a new one, and a new one. modern day electronics have a nasty habit of depreciating don't they? not a problem if you're a home user simply browsing/emailing (for whom a mac is probably a better buy, just replace every 3 years), but in many industries, research and, of course, gaming pc with linux/windows/whatever is definetly the better option - finance and function oh, if echo3zero repairs any machines he builds/sells (automatically disqualifying those sales from being macs), i think having a windows/linux based machine is going to be FAR more useful for his job, which the machine is intended for. why won't apple open up their os? they'd lose their only advantage over microsoft ("just works" and standardised aesthetics) and inherit window's occassional driver problems, which initially will rival those of linux until market share increases. also, they won't be able to rip-off their customers as badly. sound business practice in my opinion. no need for bs mac propaganda about innovation and ilife. i would comment on what is effectively slave labour in china, which apple is supporting by manufacturing there, but much of the available pc hardware i suspect is made in the same way, and again this is sound business practice provided mac fans choose to neglect/omit this fact (which they do, see quotes above:p ). fair pay means diminished profit and/or higher cost to consumer. being both consumer and not a slave, i can live with that (horrible i know;))	motorbyclist (188)
552730	2007-05-30 09:19:00	why won't apple open up their os? Too hard to guarantee the quality and stability of the OS. You ask if OS X is inherently restrictive in hardware and software choice- well they were in the 90's when most of the developers were leaving in droves to go to Windows but all that has pretty much changed since about 1997 onwards. The bundled iLife software is technically free or it can be bought as a stand alone Mac app. Regarding Mac hardware prices and upgrades, it depends on what model you have purchased as to what you can upgrade. The actual OS can be upgraded without having to purchase a new machine which has pretty much always been the case. I think what confuses a lot of people is that Apple constantly changes its hardware designs, thus giving the impression that if you want to upgrade your Mac you need to by a new one.	winmacguy (3367)
552731	2007-05-30 09:35:00	Next time your on your lunch break, stop off at the University computer store on Symonds St and as the Mac guys there to show you the differences between the two systems. You might find it more educational and informative. :)	winmacguy (3367)
552732	2007-05-30 10:31:00	Starting to enjoy the debate now - good points both sides. This is my first post on my new lappy - all networked, wirelessed and ready to go. 1) Screen is not the glossy (trubrite/crystalbrite) screen I thought - normal TFT. 2) Keyboard not springy enough - makes it harder to touch type. 3) Stupidly partitioned and FAT32 so about to re partition and reinstall so see you in a few days lol. Keep you posted. BTW I hate handles. Its Graham. Cheers.	echothreezero (6612)
552733	2007-05-30 10:42:00	it works out cheaper to buy a pc - with lower initial cost, and occasionally upgrade ram, cpu, grahics as necessary (new amd skt AM3 cpus are meant to backward compatible too, making motherboard replacement a single component job:D)- than to buy a mac and then buy a new one, and a new one, and a new one. modern day electronics have a nasty habit of depreciating don't they? The answer to that question depends a lot on the job your wanting to do. Computers in large businesses or corporations don't get upgraded they same way that home computers do since it makes better financial sense to set a large scale lease agreement with the supplier such as HP or IBM where by the hardware may be completely replaced after 3 years as opposed to outfitting 300 PCs with new motherboards which is not practical considering the time restraints placed on IT types. In situations where Macs a commonly used such as marketing departments, design and movie studios and TV stations such as the BBC, you would generally tend to have PCs in the admin and accounting departments and Macs handling the creative stuff which is what they are suited to as well as engineering, medical imaging, science/research etc. Apple or a 3rd party authorised vendor would usually have some sort of lease agreement sorted out which would include hardware support and replacing models when needed.	winmacguy (3367)
552734	2007-05-30 10:44:00	Starting to enjoy the debate now - good points both sides. This is my first post on my new lappy - all networked, wirelessed and ready to go. 1) Screen is not the glossy (trubrite/crystalbrite) screen I thought - normal TFT. 2) Keyboard not springy enough - makes it harder to touch type. 3) Stupidly partitioned and FAT32 so about to re partition and reinstall so see you in a few days lol. Keep you posted. BTW I hate handles. Its Graham. Cheers. What about your choice of multimedia software, Graham?	winmacguy (3367)
552735	2007-05-30 10:48:00	One step at a time. Will keep you posted.	echothreezero (6612)
552736	2007-05-30 10:49:00	One step at a time. Will keep you posted. Sounds like a lot of work for something that should be "up and go"...?	winmacguy (3367)
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