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| Thread ID: 80521 | 2007-06-26 04:10:00 | Going Vista in an Apple World | myke (7862) | Press F1 |
| Post ID | Timestamp | Content | User | ||
| 563135 | 2007-06-27 14:36:00 | Sorry I was hoping for some productive feedback rather than any Mac vs Windows debate (thanks to the one or two useful comments). I haven’t had a chance to reply to posts. I’ll try and do that here. First of all we won’t be swapping, but redeploying aging eMacs that are currently struggling to run MX 2004 versions of Macromedia Studio. They will go into classrooms, not giving them away, silly. Why look at going with Vista? Long term planning here. Our confidence in Apple products and its standing has been a rocked by some poor experiences. When was the last time Apple released a reliable entry-level laptop? I ‘m talking hardware and particularly logic board failures. G3 iBook? Black MacBook? The former a huge disappointment, the latter… I’ve returned six or seven within six months for repairs. And what was with the 512 RAM… which would need discarding to go a usable 1GB? If my staff lacks confidence in the product then we need to look elsewhere. If we are considering replacing future teacher laptops with Windows… then Desktops will probably follow. This is all based on experience. I know it is only rumours at the moment, but if Apple does drop the 17” iMac and there is no dramatic shift in the pricing point of 20”… then Apple can kiss the Edu market goodbye. Will they do that? I'm not sure. Maybe they are distracted by the iPhone. I work in an Apple network and use Apple computers. The next OS is Leopard… this impacts on our thinking. We felt that it was time to make a decision or at least seriously look at our options. So the question remains: What would be good solid specs for a Vista Machine? 2GB RAM? 4GB? And I don’t mean out of the box, cause we’ll turn a lot of the eye candy off… just like you should with Tiger. I’m not a Windows Fan boy or Apple fanboy… Students need to be comfortable with working with any OS. A Service Pack could be out for Vista by December or maybe early next year. Tiger is up to 4.10 and over 111 fixes and counting… imagine what we will have to deal with Leopard? Windows Vista machines may prove to be more expensive than the entry-level iMacs, but then what do you get for an entry-level iMac? We ain’t comparing Apples with Apples…. The Ed model is currently a combo drive (no DVD writer) and 512 RAM. Will there be an affordable Ed model, many commentators are not so sure. Do you see Vista as being a cheaper more hassel free alternative than Tiger? Tiger certainly hasn’t be hassle free. But no, we are talking IT here, not using toasters. Apple service support lacking – Try getting an onsite extended warrantee for your Apple Xserve. You can buy it, but it is for an Australian audience… money down the drain. Vista should integrate with OS X via Terminal with out too many hassels for print stuff Thanks, good to know. …you are switching from mac to windows i assume you will need new licences Yes, however unless I was planning to hold onto the eMac… I’d need to get new Intel versions of the Adobe software anyway (as Fireworks (which we will replace with Photoshop) and Flash run like rubbish on Intel apples and on our wimpy eMacs (even the ones with 512 RAM. One of the big pluses… is access to the Govt licensed Microsoft software. Open Office or Neo Office… sorry, don’t rate them highly, yet… We are disappointed with Govt dropping Mac Office… although Page might be ok if they ever send us the software. I'd put HP at the bottom of the list along with Acer out of all the "name" PCs though. Why? I'd be very interested to know what the longer term price benefits and cost savings of moving from an educational Mac OS X setup to new educational hardware and suitable edu version of Vista considering that the video editing software of iMovie that the kids would be using already comes free on the Mac but not on Vista. Photoshop is priced about the same for both platforms as is most of the other stuff that the kids will be using. Vista has a video editor, maybe not as pleasant to use as iMovie (had more time to mature)… however the ability to use Hard drive video cameras with Vista would add some value due to faster download times (I’m told). Keep in mind that we are not abandoning OS X, in fact we have a large network of OS X clients and half a dozen XP clients. We just are not scared to run dual platforms and possibly faze out or reduce one platform… probably over three years depending on what flys. I have to add that if you are totally Mac at the moment then I would be asking some very serious questions as to why change. To integrate Macs and PC's as far as users home folders and files and printing isn't easy. Time comsuming if this is already configured from a Mac server. I am currently trialing ExtremeZ-IP to try and over come some of these issues. Currently is a Windows Server with Mac Bound to AD but user files are not automattically saved to the network home folder. Then when kids move from one Mac to a PC or Mac their saved work doesn't go with them. I agree we aren’t taking this decision lightly. Currently I do not allow students to use their roaming/home profiles when they work with me (but they can in their classroom or elsewhere). Students work in a local account, but get Internet authentication through the servers. We do this due to software such as Flash and Fireworks not playing nicely with the Servers… The software, apparently is not designed to be run in a Workgroup environment. Multiple users in Flash logged into network accounts brought our servers to a crawl. It is too early to be deploying Vista in any serious manner - wait and see what issues other people have first! OS X has to be a more reliable and stable platform. In a few months time Apple users will be in the same boat with Leopard. Not to the same extend as OS X hasn’t been completely rewritten. Is it just me or am I the only person that thinks most of the new OS X new versions were not much more than Service Packs… that you paid for? In regards to stability… why does it have to be more stable? Because Steve Jobs said so? Just spend some time in the Apple forums to see what is driving people nuts. Imagine if a Windows update broke your wireless access and it took from March through to May to find a fix? We aren’t dealing with Toasters. All OSs have problems and they all have evangelists. Sorry about the novel. |
myke (7862) | ||
| 563136 | 2007-06-27 20:14:00 | Good to hear back from you myke. You list some very valid points for both cases. Regarding the PC vs Mac debate, it is alive and well regardless of the forum you visit which can be a good or bad thing depending on the info your looking for. Apple tend to be nonchalant compared to MS when it comes to back up and support although each platform has its pros and cons depending on the situation. |
winmacguy (3367) | ||
| 563137 | 2007-06-28 00:14:00 | Um probably with vista and the programs you mention there is no real overkill, as vista is fairly resource hungry as are the latest versions of those apps Have you actually tested it or are you going on rumors? I actually run Vista Ultimate and it is no more or no less resource hungry than XP. Sure it uses more memory but then it is doing more intelligent buffering. Turn this off then you get it back again. I have XP and Vista on the same machine and they do exactly the same regardless of which OS is in control. Sure Vista requires a higher base level but on the same machine they do roughly the same. |
Big John (551) | ||
| 563138 | 2007-06-28 00:27:00 | Well. If you really have to. I'd put HP at the bottom of the list along with Acer out of all the "name" PCs though. Really PCTek, I like HP, who would you recommend for big name brands nowadays then? |
SolMiester (139) | ||
| 563139 | 2007-06-28 01:38:00 | Good to hear back from you myke. You list some very valid points for both cases. Regarding the PC vs Mac debate, it is alive and well regardless of the forum you visit which can be a good or bad thing depending on the info your looking for. Apple tend to be nonchalant compared to MS when it comes to back up and support although each platform has its pros and cons depending on the situation. Winmacguy, there is no debate here re: mac v windows, that is in your head. Stop bringing it up okay! |
SolMiester (139) | ||
| 563140 | 2007-06-28 12:02:00 | Have you actually tested it or are you going on rumors? I actually run Vista Ultimate and it is no more or no less resource hungry than XP... I'd assume that Leopard will have greater demands with all the additional eye candy. Schools get access to Vista Bus ed... I think recently I read that we could also jump to Ultimate if we wanted, without add cost. Would you recommend Ultimate over Business? Cheers |
myke (7862) | ||
| 563141 | 2007-06-28 20:30:00 | I'd assume that Leopard will have greater demands with all the additional eye candy. Schools get access to Vista Bus ed... I think recently I read that we could also jump to Ultimate if we wanted, without add cost. Would you recommend Ultimate over Business? Cheers Leopard's eye candy is based around Apple's Core Graphics (my understanding) which is already part of the system unlike Vista's eye candy. Leopard's grphics are also quite similar to those used by Sun back in the 90's. So to answer your question, no I don't see the graphics put as much of a requirement on the system as Vista. What is the reason that your wanting to move "up" from XP? Myke? |
winmacguy (3367) | ||
| 563142 | 2007-06-29 02:34:00 | Leopard's eye candy is based around Apple's Core Graphics (my understanding) which is already part of the system unlike Vista's eye candy. Leopard's grphics are also quite similar to those used by Sun back in the 90's. So to answer your question, no I don't see the graphics put as much of a requirement on the system as Vista. What is the reason that your wanting to move "up" from XP? Myke? Yeah, the underlying technology is Quartz... developer.apple.com However... a new OS brings new overheads with it... even if it is drawing the shiny photo object type icons... reflections galore and various new stuff built in... Have a look here: www.apple.com I'm looking forward to playing with Leopard... but it won't be going on our eMacs, Tiger was a big enough jump. Funny how the new OS took a back seat to Apple creating the iPhone. How many more months till we see leopard? I'm not sure what you mean by moving up from XP... My school is primarily an Apple based network with Windows XP in the admin block. I don't see any point in buying into buying XP machines as Vista is the future of the Microsoft Windows platform. Most comments are based on second hand knowledge. What I want to know is what do you need to make apps like Flash and Photoshop and maybe 3D apps like Blender fly on Vista? Then I can work out how cost effective it would be compared to considering staying with Apple and the requirements for running the same apps. |
myke (7862) | ||
| 563143 | 2007-06-29 05:49:00 | I'm looking forward to playing with Leopard... but it won't be going on our eMacs, Tiger was a big enough jump. Funny how the new OS took a back seat to Apple creating the iPhone. How many more months till we see leopard? I'm not sure what you mean by moving up from XP... My school is primarily an Apple based network with Windows XP in the admin block. I don't see any point in buying into buying XP machines as Vista is the future of the Microsoft Windows platform. Most comments are based on second hand knowledge. What I want to know is what do you need to make apps like Flash and Photoshop and maybe 3D apps like Blender fly on Vista? Then I can work out how cost effective it would be compared to considering staying with Apple and the requirements for running the same apps. From what Ive read it will be October or slightly earlier judging by the reports of some of the latest build, and Leopard will include ZFS . Interesting report here from Ars techinca from earlier today. arstechnica.com |
winmacguy (3367) | ||
| 563144 | 2007-06-29 05:57:00 | From what Ive read it will be October or slightly earlier judging by the reports of some of the latest build, and Leopard will include ZFS . Interesting report here from Ars techinca from earlier today. arstechnica.com If you don't need to update any of your software, the old software should run fine under rosetta. probably a lot better then it ran on the emac. |
plod (107) | ||
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