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Thread ID: 141816	2016-03-04 21:14:00	Darwin Rules !	Terry Porritt (14)	PC World Chat

Post ID	Timestamp	Content	User
1416947	2016-04-17 22:05:00	And following on from my previous analogy I believe that every Boat Ramp should have signage explaining how to launch a boat, plus Wardens on duty 24/7, to stop this sort of accident. 7112	B.M. (505)
1416948	2016-04-18 03:58:00	the thing that I see is there is holes in the walls for the 11 or so joists, but the balcony only has 2-3 joists sticking out like they broke under the floor. I enlarged the image and came to the same conclusion. There appeared to be 2 or 3 "stubs' where joists had fractured, and the rest looked like they were just butted into the wall, so there was minimal longitudinal strength. No way would 11 or 12 6x2's (150mm x 50mm) joists extending the full way out to the edge of the deck and cantilevered a similar distance (or more) back under the flooring. I'm picking that there were a maximum of three, or at most four joists cantilevered back for anything greater than two metres, and the rest just 'sat on the shelf'. I wouldn't mind betting that only the two outer joists were cantilevered and there's no assurance that they were treated timber and knot/flaw free. I hope the investigation report is published, because heads should be rolling. Billy 8{(	Billy T (70)
1416949	2016-04-18 07:53:00	I enlarged the image and came to the same conclusion. There appeared to be 2 or 3 "stubs' where joists had fractured, and the rest looked like they were just butted into the wall, so there was minimal longitudinal strength. No way would 11 or 12 6x2's (150mm x 50mm) joists extending the full way out to the edge of the deck and cantilevered a similar distance (or more) back under the flooring. I'm picking that there were a maximum of three, or at most four joists cantilevered back for anything greater than two metres, and the rest just 'sat on the shelf'. I wouldn't mind betting that only the two outer joists were cantilevered and there's no assurance that they were treated timber and knot/flaw free. I hope the investigation report is published, because heads should be rolling. Billy 8{( the picture i saw latter on showed that most had sheared off at the wall. i do think they went all the way in, tho as far as i can tell in the reports no one has actually confirmed that (as ceiling wasn't opened up). however i don't think thats a big issue. its just a difference in design. i would expect a fixed joist will break at the wall while a free floating one to break further in. i would guess theres quite a bit of difference in how the two designs fail in overload conditions. what i don't know is that the design BRANZ shows is required by law to do, or if builders can still do the old way. in all practical terms i bet there would be no difference in cost between existing cantilevered deck and a stronger one. the stronger one would simply be a bit smaller.	tweak'e (69)
1416950	2016-04-18 08:19:00	the picture i saw latter on showed that most had sheared off at the wall. i do think they went all the way in, tho as far as i can tell in the reports no one has actually confirmed that (as ceiling wasn't opened up). however i don't think thats a big issue. its just a difference in design. i would expect a fixed joist will break at the wall while a free floating one to break further in. i would guess theres quite a bit of difference in how the two designs fail in overload conditions. what i don't know is that the design BRANZ shows is required by law to do, or if builders can still do the old way. in all practical terms i bet there would be no difference in cost between existing cantilevered deck and a stronger one. the stronger one would simply be a bit smaller. Branz don't make that sort of recommendation really it comes down to what the Structural engineer in conjunction with the architect recommend and don't forget the council who signed it off when it was built although they are all trying to shift responsibility on the builders themselves, a real dumb move.	gary67 (56)
1416951	2016-04-18 09:24:00	And following on from my previous analogy I believe that every Boat Ramp should have signage explaining how to launch a boat, plus Wardens on duty 24/7, to stop this sort of accident. 7112 And a L_O_T of orange to prevent anyone accidentally glimpsing the sea which is a notoriously hazardous environment. The entire design of the sea is well overdue for a complete review to bring it into line with best international practice. Those claiming ownership of the sea will naturally bear the costs of this review and any arising compliance costs.	R2x1 (4628)
1416952	2016-04-18 09:42:00	I enlarged the image and came to the same conclusion . There appeared to be 2 or 3 "stubs' where joists had fractured, and the rest looked like they were just butted into the wall, so there was minimal longitudinal strength . No way would 11 or 12 6x2's (150mm x 50mm) joists extending the full way out to the edge of the deck and cantilevered a similar distance (or more) back under the flooring . I'm picking that there were a maximum of three, or at most four joists cantilevered back for anything greater than two metres, and the rest just 'sat on the shelf' . I wouldn't mind betting that only the two outer joists were cantilevered and there's no assurance that they were treated timber and knot/flaw free . I hope the investigation report is published, because heads should be rolling . Billy 8{( Heads rolling my arse, you overload a structure then jump up and and down on it the conclusion is predetermined .	prefect (6291)
1416953	2016-04-18 10:48:00	Heads rolling my arse, you overload a structure then jump up and and down on it the conclusion is predetermined. did you know what the load limit is before this happened ? how many home owners or renters (more important these days) know what the structural limits are? out side of builders etc i bet none. i doubt anyone has any idea of exactly how many people they can put on there deck. as i mentioned before the limit is really low. i bet all of you have overloaded your deck at some point.	tweak'e (69)
1416954	2016-04-18 10:54:00	Branz don't make that sort of recommendation really it comes down to what the Structural engineer in conjunction with the architect recommend and don't forget the council who signed it off when it was built although they are all trying to shift responsibility on the builders themselves, a real dumb move. i don't know how the pen pushing system works or where BRANZ fits into all of that. i just see them doing the testing and making recommendations. i see they recommend not to notch the joists for cantilevered decks. i don't blame the builder when its others who tell them what the specs are and tell them how to make it to those specs.	tweak'e (69)
1416955	2016-04-18 20:13:00	And a L_O_T of orange to prevent anyone accidentally glimpsing the sea which is a notoriously hazardous environment. The entire design of the sea is well overdue for a complete review to bring it into line with best international practice. Those claiming ownership of the sea will naturally bear the costs of this review and any arising compliance costs. Absolutely, indeed the whole seabed should be painted vivid orange at the owners’ expense. Also, to protect the environment, all vessels should carry an oil boom to at least the following specifications HERE (forsvaret.dk ls%20and%20floating%20tanks/Compliance%20Matrix%201A%20-%20Coastal.pdf) and a Lucas non-glare flashlight.	B.M. (505)
1416956	2016-04-19 06:35:00	Absolutely, indeed the whole seabed should be painted vivid orange at the owners’ expense. Also, to protect the environment, all vessels should carry an oil boom to at least the following specifications HERE (forsvaret.dk ls%20and%20floating%20tanks/Compliance%20Matrix%201A%20-%20Coastal.pdf) and a Lucas non-glare flashlight. Well the Lucas headlight would be non glare as it wouldnt be working.	prefect (6291)
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