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Thread ID: 53443	2005-01-17 22:48:00	No mask I say.Burqa	Cicero (40)	PC World Chat

Post ID	Timestamp	Content	User
315216	2005-01-18 19:01:00	In the court system everyone should be treated as equals. In everyday live, people should be allowed to exercise their beliefs, whether it be religious, cultural or otherwise. It's unfair to demand that people throw away their beliefs, their customs and traditions. If you went to an Islamic country with your family and kids, would you want to throw away your Kiwi way of life, and adapt to theirs? Your wife should try getting around in shorts and tank top in Saudi Arabia,not a problem is she is to stoning.	Cicero (40)
315217	2005-01-18 19:32:00	In the court system everyone should be treated as equals. In everyday live, people should be allowed to exercise their beliefs, whether it be religious, cultural or otherwise. It's unfair to demand that people throw away their beliefs, their customs and traditions. If you went to an Islamic country with your family and kids, would you want to throw away your Kiwi way of life, and adapt to theirs? Everyone should be treated equally in the court system. If you went to an Islamic country you would not have any choice but to adapt to their way of life. Where have you been all your life, have you ever been out of your soft, shelted NZ existance.	Safari (3993)
315218	2005-01-18 20:57:00	In the court system everyone should be treated as equals. In everyday live, people should be allowed to exercise their beliefs, whether it be religious, cultural or otherwise. It's unfair to demand that people throw away their beliefs, their customs and traditions. If you went to an Islamic country with your family and kids, would you want to throw away your Kiwi way of life, and adapt to theirs? Agreed, I didn't mean to give the impression that immigrants should throw away their beliefs & I certainly don't mean any offence to anyone, it's the mix of beliefs & cultures that make the world an interesting place. And I certainly have no right to ask someone to do this. But as a Kiwi, I feel I do have the right to expect immigrants to conform to our legal system & practices. Your comment "If you went to an Islamic country with your family and kids, would you want to throw away your Kiwi way of life, and adapt to theirs?" makes me think you are a younger person. The facts are you would have no choice but to conform to their way of life. Just try cracking a stubbie on your deck while cooking the bbq & see what will happen to you. I also think I have the right for myself & my childrens future & kiwi way of life, not to have pay vast sums of money to accomodate someones beliefs & cutural sensitivities. Nor do I expect my parlimentary representatives to change any laws that will cater for these people, although I do expect them to have plans & policies in place that will help them integrate into NZ society successfully. At the current rate of immigration NZ's population by the year 2020 will compromise 27% Asian immigrants This does not include Pacific Islanders, Afghans, Ethiopians, English, South Africans etc & other immigrants & refugees. This is certainly changing the face of NZ & it is us that are in danger of losing our cultural identity As a friend of mine who is a Maori married to a Pakeha pointed out recently, it is not only the historical issues we need to address, but the issues facing us in the coming years as our own identities are eroded as the balance of governance shifts as more immigrants stand for & acheive power in the form of parlimentarians, Mayors, business leaders etc. A major concern of his is the foreshore & seabed issues. According to him there won't be an issue shortly as there won't be any foreshore or seabed. The foreshores are being sold off to wealthy overseas investors at a staggering rate & immigrants seem to think they can go to the beach & take whatever they want & whatever size they want, effectively stripping stretches of coastline that will take many many years to recover, therefore denying his children their customary rights. Have a look around, a few short years ago you wouldn't have seen an Asian Mayor or member of parliment, there are quite a number now. Please don't think I'm Asian or anyone else bashing, I have a number of friends of various ethnicities, I'm just concerned about the "Kiwi way of life" I enjoy so much & I want it preserved for my Children & Grandchildren. I think it's long past the time our politicians took a long hard look at the situation & adopted a sensible long term solution to ensure our way of life stays exactly as it is. Rant over (for today)	bartsdadhomer (80)
315219	2005-01-18 21:24:00	Agreed, I didn't mean to give the impression that immigrants should throw away their beliefs, it's the mix of beliefs & cultures that make the world an interesting place. And I certainly have no right to ask someone to do this. But as a Kiwi, I feel I do have the right to expect immigrants to conform to our legal system & practices. But your comment "If you went to an Islamic country with your family and kids, would you want to throw away your Kiwi way of life, and adapt to theirs?" makes me think you are a younger person. The facts are you would have no choice but to conform to their way of life. Just try cracking a stubbie on your deck while cooking the bbq & see what will happen to you. I also think I have the right for myself & my childrens future & kiwi way of life, not to have pay vast sums of money to accomodate someones beliefs & cutural sensitivities. Nor do I expect my parlimentary representatives to change any laws that will cater for these people, although I do expect them to have plans & policies in place that will help them integrate into NZ society successfully. At the current rate of immigration NZ's population by the year 2020 will compromise 27% Asian immigrants This does not include Pacific Islanders, Afghans, Ethiopians, English, South Africans etc & other immigrants & refugees. This is certainly changing the face of NZ & it is us that are in danger of losing our cultural identity As a friend of mine who is a Maori married to a Pakeha pointed out recently, it is not only the historical issues we need to address, but the issues facing us in the coming years as our own identities are eroded as the balance of governance shifts as more immigrants stand for & acheive power in the form of parlimentarians, Mayors, business leaders etc. A major concern of his is the foreshore & seabed issues. According to him there won't be an issue shortly as there won't be any foreshore or seabed. The foreshores are being sold off to wealthy overseas investors at a staggering rate & immigrants seem to think they can go to the beach & take whatever they want & whatever size they want, effectively stripping stretches of coastline that will take many many years to recover, therefore denying his children their customary rights. Have a look around, a few short years ago you wouldn't have seen an Asian Mayor or member of parliment, there are quite a number now. Please don't think I'm Asian or anyone else bashing, I have a number of friends of various ethnicities, I'm just concerned about the "Kiwi way of life" I enjoy so much & I want it preserved for my Children & Grandchildren. I think it's long past the time our politicians took a long hard look at the situation & adopted a sensible long term solution to ensure our way of life stays exactly as it is. Rant over (for today) Oops - I must have misunderstood what you were trying to say. I agree wholly with what you are saying - there are people who simply do not seem to care about what the law says, and try to find ways go "get around" them. This unfortunately includes a number of "NZ" people. The Kiwi way of life is (in my opinion) one of the best in the world, and it needs to be preserved, while welcoming other cultures into our country as well. Immigrants play a huge part in our economy and society, and assist in bringing trade to NZ from their home countries. What we as a country need to do is to get the right balance, so everyone can be happy in a rich, multicultural society. At the moment with our politicians and government departments with little or no common sense, we see events like Ahmed Zaoui staying in NZ for 2 years even though he was a "security risk", while a teenage Sri Lankan girl who had allegedly been sexually abused in her home country was forcibly deported, simply is not the message we should be sending out to the international community. Taking in illegal immigrants which Australia does not want to deal with (Tampa refugees) is not the way to "help" people - instead we should let those who follow the correct procedures, those who have the skills and qualifications no matter where they are from, have priority in the queue for residency, rather than say to potential refugees "jump on a boat illegally destined for NZ, let it sink, and you can come into NZ and everyone will feel sorry for you". The "one law for all" debate isn't just between immigrants and more settled NZers. It's also between Maori and Non-Maori people. Don Brash's Orewa speech brought this into the public arena, where he basically said what a huge proportion of NZers have been thinking for years, but were not willing to say for fear of being criticised as "non PC". Within reason, people's cultures should be respected, but it cannot go overboard. For instance, someone with a 1/16 Maori bloodline can claim that they are "Maori", jump on the Maori electoral roll, and gain special priviledges - in the HB area for instance, the local Health dept. will subsidise "Maori families" visits to their local GP, including any transport costs such as a taxi fare, whereas non-Maori families who might be in a very bad financial situation do not get these priviledges. This recent debate with the two women in court and their burkas is also an interesting situation. Although the women are citing religious reasons for hiding their faces, maybe they feel threatened that if their identities are revealed their safety could be at risk. I think the court has made the right decision in this case - the judge, jury and court officials can positively identify that these women are the correct witnesses, while their safety is protected by hiding their identies. Other court cases have taken place in NZ courts where witnesses have given evidence behind a screen, so only the judge and jury can see them, to protect their identites - why not in this situation?	somebody (208)
315220	2005-01-18 21:24:00	Things change, Populations change, No skin off my nose if the country(Auckland) becomes more of one then the other. Hard case though if in 100 years time the white lads are claiming back all the land because their grandfathers sold it off to the Asians for market value at the time......	Metla (12)
315221	2005-01-18 21:28:00	My bet is that the 2 woman were pressured by their husbands not to show their faces, Because then the world would see how ugly their wives are and they would be shamed...... Muhahahaha. OMG......quick quick,put that damn sheet back over your face,You an affront to god.....	Metla (12)
315222	2005-01-18 21:38:00	Oops - I must have misunderstood what you were trying to say. I agree wholly with what you are saying - there are people who simply do not seem to care about what the law says, and try to find ways go "get around" them. ..... ..... ..... ..... ..... ..... ..... ..... ..... ..... ..... ..... ..... ..... ..... ..... ..... ..... ..... ..... ..... ..... ..... ..... ..... ..... ..... ..... ..... ..... ..... ..... ..... ..... ..... ..... ..... ..... ..... ..... ..... ..... while their safety is protected by hiding their identies. Other court cases have taken place in NZ courts where witnesses have given evidence behind a screen, so only the judge and jury can see them, to protect their identites - why not in this situation? Well said	bartsdadhomer (80)
315223	2005-01-18 22:09:00	My bet is that the 2 woman were pressured by their husbands not to show their faces, Because then the world would see how ugly their wives are and they would be shamed...... ..... And I thought I was the only one who would think such a thing. Jack	JJJJJ (528)
315224	2005-01-18 22:49:00	I'm not going to offer my comment, but I'm quite suprised Growly hasn't replied.	~sy~ (95)
315225	2005-01-18 22:59:00	The mass movement of peoples around the world is happening everywhere due to population pressures. There is no way to stop it or to reverse the tide. What is happening now in New Zealand, and especially since Jim Bolger declared this country to be part of Asia, started in England after World War 2. Until legislation was rushed through Parliament, literally hundreds of millions of inhabitants of the former 'Empire' were entitled as of right to ask for a British passport and go to live in England. The first to arrive were Jamaicans in the late 1940s onwards. They were given priority council housing ahead of indigenous Brits, mainly because they rapidly turned the Victorian housing they went into, to slum conditions. Whereas the white people living in the same type of housing that had been due for demolition for the previous 30 odd years, kept the properties in good condition as well as they were able. A lot of ill feeling was generated, and formed the basis of subsequent prejudice. Housing was in very short supply anyway because bombing. One of my grans lived in such appalling property, basically one room upstairs, one room downstairs and coal cellar. Outside toilet shared between 4 households. By the 1970s virtually whole cities had become 'alien', Leeds, Bradford, Wolverhampton, large chunks of Birmingham and the West midlands etc. It is something I think that has to be accepted as inevitable.	Terry Porritt (14)
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