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Thread ID: 53967	2005-02-01 03:57:00	Hooray for Democracy in Iraq!	vinref (6194)	PC World Chat

Post ID	Timestamp	Content	User
320296	2005-02-03 10:16:00	ahhh.....no idea what your getting at I'm afraid, Maybe I'm just to pure of mind. ............................HA :D :D :D Better not belabour the point,just not used to such purity. :D	Cicero (40)
320297	2005-02-03 19:42:00	You Sir are a legend. Ow shucks! ... I know what a legend is,thought you really meant another word,possibly unmentionable. Pray tell Thomas, maybe the alternative is preferable.	Murray P (44)
320298	2005-02-05 07:15:00	Some of you may be interested in the following interview, found on the Al Jazeera web site: http://english . aljazeera . net (Not sure if I did the URL correctly, using Advanced Mode - the Preview Post function does not work . Click Here ( . aljazeera . net/NR/exeres/39E36A9C-48E1-483B-966F-AFD35D9A590E . htm" target="_blank">english . aljazeera . net) Anyway, it is an interview with Muhammad al-Duri, who is . . . A journalist, university professor and statesman who served as an Iraqi delegate to the UN from 1999 to 2003, he left Iraq in 1999 to act as Iraq's ambassador to the UN in Geneva, Switzerland before he was moved to New York where he remained until he resigned after the occupation of Iraq . The interview starts with . . . Aljazeera . net: How do you feel about the elections? I do not necessarily align myself / agree with his answers, nor that of GWBush, but reading articles on Al Jazeera does give a different view of the Iraq situation .	Strommer (42)
320299	2005-02-05 07:36:00	If one is not violently anti-arab, or violently pro Bush or pro Israel, but trying to be balanced, then Aljazeera website has in my opinion always given a fair news reports on the middle east . Non editorial articles expressing individuals views are usually interesting, and give an Arab perspective . Remember that Arab nations were not treated well, were betrayed after WW1 after promises were made to them in exchange for Arab help in defeating the Ottomans . Their memories are as long as that of the Jews . Then there is the oil factor, they were not treated well in that respect either . Oops edited out the same link	Terry Porritt (14)
320300	2005-02-05 19:20:00	Remember that Arab nations were not treated well, were betrayed after WW1 after promises were made to them in exchange for Arab help in defeating the Ottomans. Their memories are as long as that of the Jews. Then there is the oil factor, they were not treated well in that respect either. Good points, Terry. I am waiting to find a factual book (quick to read like The Da Vinci Code :) ) about the Middle East's history-politics-culture. It sure is an area of the world with huge problems and deep hatred. Anyhow Terry, I am glad to see that someone else is back on track with this thread rather than chatty chat (fun as it may be). :2cents: Weapons of Mass Destruction - I hear this all the time, slamming Bush et. al. for the lie about WMD as a reason to invade Iraq. But people have short memories. It was not just Bush and the White House who 'believed' in the WMD angle as a reason to invade Iraq. Most if not all of the UN Security Council - China included - had good reason to believe that Saddam had WMD. The UN inspectors still claim that a substantial amount of (chemicals or whatever) is still missing from their inventory. And then there is UN Security Council Resolution 1441: RECOGNIZING the threat Iraq's noncompliance with Council resolutions and proliferation of weapons of mass destruction and long-range missiles poses to international peace and security, DEPLORING FURTHER that Iraq repeatedly obstructed immediate, unconditional, and unrestricted access to sites designated by the United Nations Special Commission (UNSCOM) and the International Atomic Energy Agency (IAEA), failed to cooperate fully and unconditionally DEPLORING the absence, since December 1998, in Iraq of international monitoring, inspection, and verification, as required by relevant resolutions, of weapons of mass destruction and ballistic missiles, in spite of the Council's repeated demands that Iraq provide immediate Requests the Secretary General immediately to notify Iraq of this resolution, which is binding on Iraq; demands that Iraq confirm within seven days of that notification its intention to comply fully with this resolution; and demands further that Iraq cooperate immediately, unconditionally, and actively with UNMOVIC and the IAEA; See the full text at: www.australianpolitics.com My point is that not long ago, before Bush decided to invade Iraq, most governments and their spy agencies had very good reason to believe that Saddam did in fact possess WMD and / or the means to create them and plans to create them....and..... plans to destablize the Middle East and the flow of oil. The manner in which the USA occupies Iraq and treats its people and is terribly wrong. But let us not kid ourselves: there was no good alternative to deal with Saddam and his evil regime. Read the full text of Resolution 1441 and try to remember.	Strommer (42)
320301	2005-02-05 21:32:00	Weapons of Mass Destruction - I hear this all the time, slamming Bush et . al . for the lie about WMD as a reason to invade Iraq . But people have short memories . It was not just Bush and the White House who 'believed' in the WMD angle as a reason to invade Iraq . Most if not all of the UN Security Council - China included - had good reason to believe that Saddam had WMD . The UN inspectors still claim that a substantial amount of (chemicals or whatever) is still missing from their inventory . And then there is UN Security Council Resolution 1441: With due respect, I beg to differ in that assessment . Ex-weapons inspector Scott Ritter had totally the opposite view: . cnn . com/2002/WORLD/meast/07/17/saddam . ritter . cnna/" target="_blank">archives . cnn . com . time . com/time/pow/article/0,8599,350809,00 . html" target="_blank">www . time . com To refresh memories, Google on Scott Ritter . Then there was Hans Blix, chief weapons inspector, trying to be circumspect and polite to Bush and his administration, they were unable to find anything, or had any convictions that WMD were hidden away . The lack of evidence was completely ignored . Look here, and also listen to Blix himself: . npr . org/templates/story/story . php?storyId=1767468" target="_blank">www . npr . org	Terry Porritt (14)
320302	2005-02-05 23:51:00	Saddam actually wanted to make people believe that he had more than he actually had. He was posturing, trying to scare off his enemies. He did possess chemical WMD which he used on a small Kurdish village in northern Iraq, but from what has been found so far his ambitions for nuclear and biological WMD were unrealised. It was all a bluff, and a dangerous and foolish one at that, because he managed to bluff the Americans, or at least allow the Americans to use it as a pretext to invasion. Helping him in this bluff were some of his enemies who had defected, and who told a receptive US military intelligence all they wanted to hear.	vinref (6194)
320303	2005-02-06 00:21:00	Saddam actually wanted to make people believe that he had more than he actually had. He was posturing, trying to scare off his enemies. He did possess chemical WMD which he used on a small Kurdish village in northern Iraq, but from what has been found so far his ambitions for nuclear and biological WMD were unrealised. It was all a bluff, and a dangerous and foolish one at that, because he managed to bluff the Americans, or at least allow the Americans to use it as a pretext to invasion. Helping him in this bluff were some of his enemies who had defected, and who told a receptive US military intelligence all they wanted to hear. And I bet that was from the horses mouth. :)	Cicero (40)
320304	2005-02-06 00:21:00	>> . . . . . use it as a pretext to invasion . Helping him in this bluff were some of his enemies who had defected, and who told a receptive US military intelligence all they wanted to hear . I think that is very pertinent . People like to hear confirmation of their preconceived ideas, (we are all guilty :)) Hans Blix in the audio clip said the same about Sadam Hussein . Hitler was surrounded by toadies that told him what he wanted to hear, even during the last days in the bunker when he was giving orders to imaginary armies . And although it has been vehemently denied by both the Bush Administration and by Blair, it seems quite apparent that the intelligence services were telling their bosses what they thought their bosses wanted to hear, after a fair bit of prompting of course .	Terry Porritt (14)
320305	2005-02-06 08:23:00	The manner in which the USA occupies Iraq and treats its people and is terribly wrong . But let us not kid ourselves: there was no good alternative to deal with Saddam and his evil regime . I'm not quite sure what is "terribly" wrong Steve . Invasion sounds terrible of course unless you view it as rescue . Which is a valid alternative view . And the way the US treats the people? Hamfistedly maybe, insensitively perhaps, but fairly overall . Bearing in mind that at any moment for a US or Iraqui soldier, he may be attacked by bullet or bomb . The treatment of Westerners at the hands of insurgents in various Islamic countries, by comparison, is barbaric . Beheadings on video, terrified pleading by victims shortly before execution . Lovely stuff . The so-called atrocities at Al Gharib prison (which appalled me) were boarding school bullying by comparison . It seems to me there were three drivers for the invasion of Iraq: 1 . The collective need of the American people to avenge the 9/11 tragedy . This single event woke a slumbering lion . Afghanistan was too easy and too unfocused to be enough revenge . Saddam was highly visible and loved giving the fingers to the Yanks . 2 . An honest belief that Saddam had serious weapons which he would use against the Kurds, Saudi, and Israel . Furthermore he would disrupt a significant part of the worlds oil supplies . 3 . Personal . Saddam tried to assasinate President George Bush about 1991 . His son has never forgotten this and it was enough to tip him into taking action .	Winston001 (3612)
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