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Thread ID: 54610	2005-02-17 07:51:00	What Will It Take For New Zealand to Become a Knowledge Superpower?	vinref (6194)	PC World Chat

Post ID	Timestamp	Content	User
325887	2005-02-18 00:10:00	Seriously, there is no reason why we shouldn't become a powerhouse of knowledge. Just need to get NZQA sorted out, and a decent education minister. :stare: I agree about NCEA but not about Mallard and Benson-Pope. Ministers are MPs who get told to look after a particular portfolio. What is not obvious to the public is that government departments are populated with career driven public servants. These people live and breathe education (police, health etc) and have decades of knowledge. Ministers are babes in the wood and get totally bamboozled by their advisors. In education, the current mandarins (bosses) have a particular set of theories which may or may not prove to be the best educational model. But in the meantime we have a generation of children who are subjected to the theories and may be the poorer for it. Universities having literacy tests has to be a sign that something is wrong at primary school.	Winston001 (3612)
325888	2005-02-18 00:19:00	As to removing the welfare state - why do these social democracies continue to suceed? Britain, Ireland, Finland, Germany, Australia, even the USA. Welfare benefits are available, yet their economies thrive. Reimposing poverty isn't an answer. We probably need a more capitalist mindset. Striving for success rather than "she'll be right". That would require an end to the tall poppy syndrome. Maybe even admiration of Judy Bailey, Paul Holmes :yuck: etc for being able to fool people into paying them. If they can do it, why not you? :D	Winston001 (3612)
325889	2005-02-18 00:20:00	Greg is right, education and knowledge need to be applied in order for the 'knowledge economy' to develop. People need to be able to have a career structure that is not dependent upon very short term fundings that may disappear overnight. I'm thinking particularly of science and engineering. Twentyfive -thirty years ago we were working towards NZ becoming the 'Switzerland of the South Seas', and the prospects looked good. We had apprenticeships, DSIR had technical trainees, the Railways Machineshops trained up skilled machinists/fitter welders etc, we had firms investing heavily in the latest wiz-bang NC machine tool technology. Firms were going into aerospace manufacturing, QA was taking off, we had clever electronics firms, clever production engineers. We had developed, skilled tool and die manufacturing setups. Even Westland Helicopters was discussing setting up helicopter gear manufacture here, and that's very high, sophisticated precision engineering. There was "offset" work, whereby local firms manufactured some parts of hi-tech imported defence products. The list goes on and on of what we made and designed. "At a stroke", as Harold Wilson once said, virtually all of that was destroyed by the 1984 Labour government, and instead we now have a vast workforce of 'skilled' MacDonalds and Kentucky Fried casual/parttime employees.	Terry Porritt (14)
325890	2005-02-18 00:25:00	Athe welfare state - why do these social democracies continue to suceed? Britain, Ireland, Finland, Germany, Australia, even the USA. Welfare benefits are available, yet their economies thrive. I like the welfare State. I'm entirely happy to allocate (not that I have any say in the matter) a few of my dollars to the NZ'ers that need it. It's been said before...Live and let live.	Greg (193)
325891	2005-02-18 00:39:00	Some people fail to realise how f'g lucky they are - we don't all have to be Bill Gates to get grated cheese on our bread! I spent a short time when tomato sauce on toast was a luxury, and my electricity was cut off so I had to cook rice in a bowl over a fire. Too much damned complacency in this country!	Greg (193)
325892	2005-02-18 00:51:00	As to removing the welfare state - why do these social democracies continue to suceed? Britain, Ireland, Finland, Germany, Australia, even the USA . Welfare benefits are available, yet their economies thrive . Reimposing poverty isn't an answer . We probably need a more capitalist mindset . Striving for success rather than "she'll be right" . That would require an end to the tall poppy syndrome . Maybe even admiration of Judy Bailey, Paul Holmes :yuck: etc for being able to fool people into paying them . If they can do it, why not you? :D Heres a thought, Move to Sydney and have a go at living on the Dole . Couldn't even afford to live on the streets, Sooner rather then later one is driven by need to get out of bed and get a job . In NZ there is simply no need to work if you don't want to, Sure you won't have a nice car (unless you dedicate all that spare time to theviery and drug harvesting) but you will do just fine otherwise . I do like the Reimpose Poverty line .	Metla (12)
325893	2005-02-18 06:52:00	and maybe, a capital market that can supply adequate funding are important factors that have not been mentioned, which reflects the common ignorance. Welfare and educational reform are necessary but may not yield a significant difference, as the presence of people on the dole does not give rise to the absence of entrepreneurs; and there are many well educated people coming out of New Zealand educational institutes and heading straight overseas. In India, those entrepreneurs that are driving the countrys rise to becoming a knowledge superpower are expatriates who have returned with education, experience, connections and capital. Many of them have finished their education at the finest universities in North America and Europe, and have worked at some of the most progressive and successful companies all over the world. So where are the expatriate New Zealanders?	vinref (6194)
325894	2005-02-18 08:10:00	We do have capital markets Vin. Have a look at the number of finance companies on the stock exchange these days. And then there are various insurance companies desperately trying to get their money lent out. However I assume you mean venture capital. Money that a punter is willing to invest (rather than lend) to help a bright young thing with an idea. That money exists too but is harder to find. Yet in this day and age, it is possible to get a business running on very little capital. The guys who started Ihug come to mind. Or Stephan with his orange juice - a schoolboy who used his mums kitchen. As to where all our intellectual capital has gone? I understood from articles in magazines over the past 3 years that many youngish Kiwis have returned home. They have money and ideas. Lets hope they provide the boost and enthusiasm we all need.	Winston001 (3612)
325895	2005-02-18 11:53:00	Winston001 Don't hold your breath.	zqwerty (97)
325896	2005-02-18 22:15:00	To switch the subject back slightly, I see a correlation between this article (www.stuff.co.nz) and what is taught in our schools and what is taught by our welfare system or more specifically the suppor agencies like CYFS. That is, who is responsible for ones decisions, actions, education, lifestyle and what support is offered if one does not adhere to the common ideal (whatever that is), eg, youth allowence and privacy legislation or more to the point, how that legislation is viewed and applied by agencies, councillors, GP's etc. I see it as symptomatic of many of our values, PC culture, lack of vision and responsibility.	Murray P (44)
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