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Thread ID: 56151	2005-03-28 11:59:00	Crazy power hungry Aucklanders	Strommer (42)	PC World Chat

Post ID	Timestamp	Content	User
339127	2005-03-31 09:46:00	There isn't any experimental evidence of electro-magnetic effects on living creatures from power cables, at a reasonable distance. Apart from the odd opossum and youthful hoon getting up close and personal of course. :D That doesn't mean effects don't exist, just that they cannot yet be objectively measured. Different people may be more sensitive. However we have been using electric blankets for 60 years with millions of unknowing guinea-pigs (us) lying in electro-magnetic fields with no known detrimental results.	Winston001 (3612)
339128	2005-03-31 09:50:00	Tell us, knowledgable chaps, why do electricity lines lose so much power in transmission? Surely this is an area which deserves addressing. If new wires lost only a small amount then we wouldn't need more pylons. Isn't a nitrogen core helpful and can it be used? Yours Mother of Ten	Winston001 (3612)
339129	2005-04-01 05:50:00	Nitrogen gas is used in some cables (including the Cook Strait ones) to maintain postive pressure (you don't want water getting in through any leaks) . Nitrogen is a convenient dry "inert" gas, and it's reasonably cheap because it's a (majority) byproduct of oxygen production. It doesn't do anything for the conductivity of the wire, except by keeping it "oxygen-free" like your fancy audio cables. (Anyway,most of the power conductors are aluminium these days. ;) ) Superconducting cables are wonderful. But to keep them cold they have to be contained in very high vacuum "cryostats" containing the liquid gas refrigerant. Imagine how much that costs per mile. Consider how much more it would cost to have it underground yet still accessible for repair. (High vacuum stuff leaks. :( Even in laboratory conditions.) I'm not sure whether anyone has succeeded in long distance power transmission in high-temperature superconductors . "high" here generally means LN2 (what is it, 93K?) rather than the 4K of liquid helium. I have heard of one 100 metre section used (all in one building in New York) to carry some hundreds of megawatts. Liquifying gases does cost a lot of energy. And the gas boils off all the time. Nitrogen still cost, even though it's just taken from the air. Helium is all imported, and expensive. Just making the wires bigger to lower their resistance reaches limits ... the weight goes up, so the towers have to be bigger ... The approach over the years has been to increase voltage. The current reduces proportionately as the voltage increases. The losses reduce as the square of the current. DC has advantages -- 400kV DC can carry the same power as 400 kV rms AC but only needs to be insulated for 400 kV. AC has to be insulated for the peak voltage ... 1.4x400. A lot of the European grid is at 800kV. I think the Cook Strait conversion stuff is all solid state now. I saw the "real valves" at Haywards in 1965 ...	Graham L (2)
339130	2005-04-01 05:53:00	Tell us, knowledgable chaps, why do electricity lines lose so much power in transmission? Surely this is an area which deserves addressing. If new wires lost only a small amount then we wouldn't need more pylons. Isn't a nitrogen core helpful and can it be used? Yours Mother of Ten Dear Mother of Ten. The low temperatures required to allow superconductivity rarely exist outside of Southland.	godfather (25)
339131	2005-04-01 09:18:00	Thankyou for that Graham, very informative. So high temp superconductors are still very cold. Presumably the cable is also brittle. Oh well, so much for nitrogen. And GF - I know you are just dying to get down here again and enjoy some decent weather. Incidentally, how did you enjoy Bonanza?	Winston001 (3612)
339132	2005-04-01 09:59:00	Put the line of pylons on Maori land,exclusively. Then the rest of NZ can sit back and laugh for the next hundred years while the power companies and the Maoris negotiate. Great idea. :)	manicminer (4219)
339133	2005-04-01 10:17:00	So without giving an alternative to the power pylons, it seems the farmers are just a bunch of selfish hotheads who don't give a stuff about cutting energy to our country's main city. I wonder if any news media person, or politician, will have the guts to stand up and say so? Why is it up to the farmers to provide the alternatives? That's the job of the govt and the power companies. Notice how quiet the politicians are on this topic. I drive through the Morrinsville area every day to work and sympathise 100% with the locals. Not only would these pylons be an eyesore, but imagine having one stuck on your doorstep. You'd feel pretty cheesed off too. I bet you wouldn't be saying "oh but it's all ok because those nice people in auckland need their power". You'd be fuming at the prospect of your land value suffering, knowing full well that you're unlikely to get adequate financial compensation. It's a massive invasion of private land. Transpower should be forced to rent the land they use. Opposition to project Aqua prevailed (did it?), but I think Transpower will get their way with the pylons, sadly. It's the old "The needs of the many outweigh the needs of the few" argument.	manicminer (4219)
339134	2005-04-01 21:00:00	Why is it up to the farmers to provide the alternatives? That's the job of the govt and the power companies. ...You'd be fuming at the prospect of your land value suffering, knowing full well that you're unlikely to get adequate financial compensation. It's a massive invasion of private land. Transpower should be forced to rent the land they use. It's the old "The needs of the many outweigh the needs of the few" argument. This is a good summary of the situation. I have not followed the news in any detail but I surmise that the power company simply stated that there is no practical / economical alternative - and this does seem to be correct - so it really is up to the farmers and their lawyers to propose the only alternative that we on this thread have come up with: a nuclear plant right in Auckland (or on one of the Hauraki islands). :rolleyes: I think this would be suitable for a Tui beer billboard Yeah, Right!	Strommer (42)
339135	2005-04-02 03:01:00	Simple solution. Tell G W Bush that Auckland has WMDs (Weapons of Mass Delusion). They won't need any electricity after that. :thumbs:	Graham L (2)
339136	2005-04-02 04:04:00	Maybe a very deep shark infested sea water ditch on the Waikato side of the Bombays then give everyone a couple of weeks to decide which side they want to live. Export all the Auckland population based prison inmates back to where they came from too. Bout the only way to show Auckland that the rest of NZ is just fine without them and make Auckland keep it's rubbish in it's own backyard. They can use their own ports and resources. Totally fed up with Auckland's Prisons, rubbish, eyesore Pylons etc. on the best side of the Bombays. Let's all support an Independent Nation of Auckland. :thumbs:	Sue (33)
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