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Thread ID: 58508	2005-06-02 22:57:00	You have just been appointed "Prime Minister" of New Zealand ...	KiwiTT_NZ (233)	PC World Chat

Post ID	Timestamp	Content	User
360773	2005-06-07 00:43:00	RE: Student Loans. Education is an investment in a persons career and should be treated as such. Think of it in this scenario. Student 1 leaves high school, with no tertiary education. His average pay for his entire career is $40,000. Asuming at least 40 years of work, that totals $1.6 million earned. Student 2 Leaves high school and then goes to tertiary education. He accumulates a debt of $100,000. His average pay for his entire career is $80,000+ (some doctors earn much more than this). He therefore earns $3.2 million. This $100,000 investment in education has netted student 2 a cool $1.6 million. This is a good return in anybody's language. Therefore as the payback for education directly helps the student in better career earnings, the state should not be providing it free.	KiwiTT_NZ (233)
360774	2005-06-07 01:18:00	Most may not hit $80,000 in their first years and some like nurses or other trades not at all. Having to pay 7% or whatever interest each year is a big chain around your neck when you've got a big loan. It influences when you can buy your first house and so on.	E|im (87)
360775	2005-06-07 01:29:00	Most may not hit $80,000 in their first years and some like nurses or other trades not at all. I believe the size of the loan is reflected by the value of the course to the individuals career earnings. Having to pay 7% or whatever interest each year is a big chain around your neck when you've got a big loan. It influences when you can buy your first house and so on. Again, it is a lifestyle choice. You have chosen to invest in a career first. However, the government could reduce the interest rate for indivuduals who chose to stay in the country with skills that are on the "wanted" list by immigrants.	KiwiTT_NZ (233)
360776	2005-06-07 05:12:00	RE: Student Loans . Education is an investment in a persons career and should be treated as such . Think of it in this scenario . Student 1 leaves high school, with no tertiary education . His average pay for his entire career is $40,000 . Asuming at least 40 years of work, that totals $1 . 6 million earned . Student 2 Leaves high school and then goes to tertiary education . He accumulates a debt of $100,000 . His average pay for his entire career is $80,000+ (some doctors earn much more than this) . He therefore earns $3 . 2 million . This $100,000 investment in education has netted student 2 a cool $1 . 6 million . This is a good return in anybody's language . Therefore as the payback for education directly helps the student in better career earnings, the state should not be providing it free . Logical and hard to fault . You are right . But only if we regard tertiary education as purely used to obtain a career . However higher learning has for centuries provided the thinkers, musicians, and artists of society . Unfortunately this doesn't translate into money . Getting a BA majoring in Greek, English literature, philosophy, or phenomenology is no meal ticket . Life isn't all about money . The aesthetic side of our nature needs to be sustained by these types of education . Society needs thinkers, not just movers and shakers . I regret that education for the past 50 years has simply been seen as further job training . Understandable but a very narrow view of the value of knowledge .	Winston001 (3612)
360777	2005-06-07 05:26:00	I think that the majority of past "thinkers" were sponsored for their talent shown . I don't think we need to fund all students, in the hope we have a relevant "thinker" amongst them . If a student has an "idea" he wants to study, he should be able to request "funds" from a "Aestheic Knowledge Committee" for it . Society can set aside some funds for this; 1-2 Million a year should suffice .	KiwiTT_NZ (233)
360778	2005-06-07 09:21:00	RE: Student Loans. Education is an investment in a persons career and should be treated as such. Think of it in this scenario. Student 1 leaves high school, with no tertiary education. His average pay for his entire career is $40,000. Assuming at least 40 years of work, that totals $1.6 million earned. OK then Student 2 Leaves high school and then goes to tertiary education. He accumulates a debt of $100,000. His average pay for his entire career is $80,000+ (some doctors earn much more than this). He therefore earns $3.2 million. This is where I think your scenario Falls over. Stud 2 is still in school accumulating debt while Stud 1 is earning. If you recon on 5 years to get qualified, Stud 2 is only earning for 35 years = $2.8 million This $100,000 investment in education has netted student 2 a cool $1.6 million. This is a good return in anybody's language. That may be what he has earned, but he will have paid more in TAX. By my calculations: Stud 1 will have earned $1.6 million (your scenario) - average TAX of 33% = $1,072,000 Stud 2 will earn 35 x $80000 = $2.8 million - average TAX 39% = $1,708,000 - $100,000 Loan = $1,608,000, a difference of $536,000. That will be further whittled away by interest on the loan too I imagine. Phew that one had the old abacus going.	craigb (4884)
360779	2005-06-07 09:36:00	Pass a law banning the export of Crayfish . No "special tax" on liquor and tobacco" . Just GST same as everything else . Refuse to build or pay for any roads around Auckland . It's their councils job to pay for roading . And a 4th one . Build a 5000 cell prison on Stewart Island . Get rid of the Prison Service altogether . Put all prisoners on the Auckland Island group . Once a year do a seed drop of Spuds, Carrots, Cabbages etc . Export Rabbits, Cattle and Sheep . You work or you don't survive . We will come back in 20 years or so to pick up any survivors . (If any) We can use something like Agent Orange to ensure no canoes can be built .	Elephant (599)
360780	2005-06-07 09:51:00	1 . Encourage graduates to stay in NZ by a combination of wiping interest on student loans and writing off debut . This can be targeted to areas where employee shortages are most acute . Eg, if there are more health care workers in the pool, it will help keep their wages down, reduce there stress levels and decrease the time spent on a waiting list . Even with lower wages, the offset of the reduced loan will be an incentive to stay in the country . 2 . Ban the sale/importation of cigarettes all together . You can still smoke, but you will have to grow your own tobacco for your own use . This will stop those moaning about there right to smoke if they want . This could also be used for alcohol as well . The plus side would be a greater community involvement in brewing competitions . 3 . Do away with traffic fines for speeding . If the government was serious about stopping speed, it would impose harsher penalties for it . Would you risk speeding if it meant you could loose your licence for going over the speed limit by say 20Kmph or jail for 40Kmph, no matter if it be town or open road . No more cries of "Revenue gathering" . I have some more ideas but not enough time to get them down yet .	craigb (4884)
360781	2005-06-07 09:56:00	Get rid of the Prison Service altogether. Put all prisoners on the Auckland Island group. Once a year do a seed drop of Spuds, Carrots, Cabbages etc. Export Rabbits, Cattle and Sheep. You work or you don't survive. We will come back in 20 years or so to pick up any survivors. (If any) We can use something like Agent Orange to ensure no canoes can be built. How about in stead of dropping them on some remote Island, we build a giant tread mill in Auckland and connect it to the generators. The prisoners could be gainfully employed fixing Auckland power needs. No more pylons. They could also be used to pulling ricshaws around Auckland. No need for the 5c carbon tax.	craigb (4884)
360782	2005-06-07 11:15:00	i would..... a) take away that stupid petrol tax, its stupid. petrol is expensive as it is. b) reduce the student loan interest figure, then people will stay in nz and not follow the "brain drain"	Prescott (11)
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