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Thread ID: 58957	2005-06-17 07:17:00	Need help on clarifying some English words	Renmoo (66)	PC World Chat

Post ID	Timestamp	Content	User
364691	2005-06-21 04:14:00	Doesn't matter where it comes from, People have free will to speak as they like without being judged on it and measured against some English yardstick that would miraculously make the world perfect if adopted in the way the pushers want it. People don't automatically qualify as leaches and shunners of society because they don't speak like you buddy, in fact that comment says a hell of a lot about your attitude.	Metla (12)
364692	2005-06-21 04:21:00	Ebonics does grate the nerves,however, they are communicating with each other just as well as you do with like minded souls.Is it to hard to comprehend that what they do is just not for you? So they of course don't give a damn about others trying to change them Perhaps your defensive because others don't and dont have to give jack to what you define as culture, or your desire to force it on others, I can easily understand the act of dismissel when an outsider turns up,condems them all, then holds up a rig rule of elitist crap about how it has to be to........ Monkeys can communicate but humans have taken it to a new level. Some people it seems are happy to to revert to more primitive times with gestures and grunts to convey their limited knowledge. These type of people should restrict their comments to areas they are comfortable with such as computers which have their own distinctive basic language which do not cause any confusion to primitive minds.	Safari (3993)
364693	2005-06-21 04:29:00	Monkeys can communicate but humans have taken it to a new level. Some people it seems are happy to to revert to more primitive times with gestures and grunts to convey their limited knowledge. These type of people should restrict their comments to areas they are comfortable with such as computers which have their own distinctive basic language which do not cause any confusion to primitive minds. A middle finger works well.	Metla (12)
364694	2005-06-21 04:42:00	Doesn't matter where it comes from, People have free will to speak as they like without being judged on it and measured against some English yardstick that would miraculously make the world perfect if adopted in the way the pushers want it. People don't automatically qualify as leaches and shunners of society because they don't speak like you buddy, in fact that comment says a hell of a lot about your attitude. I agree with you; now try to figger with what part I agree..... :confused: this is getting a little long in the tooth, so I bow out of this discussion......	SurferJoe46 (51)
364695	2005-06-21 05:55:00	Shock mode? Perhaps confused... Does the person mean: 1. "I was born today" in which case they're getting the hang of language very quickly, and could be excused for thier poor spelling! 2. "I am bored today" in which case they need a life, or at least a hobby. 3. Something else entirely? Well, I just thought of this question myself, to be precise. No mistake (should I use "mistakes" or "mistake"?) in that particular previous post. Today in English class, we analysed Shakespeare Twelve night. There is one particular usage of a word which troubles (should I use "troubles" or "troubled"? )me very much. This is how it goes: "He stalked the servants' quarters as if he were lord and master. Why should it be "were" instead of 'was"? Much Cheers :)	Renmoo (66)
364696	2005-06-21 06:12:00	The online Ebonics translator gives us this.. Yo buss dis. He stalked de servants' quarters as if he wuz lord an' master Sheeit!	Metla (12)
364697	2005-06-21 06:49:00	A middle finger works well. All forms of language are for communication between people. As people when we sign a contract for example I personally would like to understand and comprehend what I am actually signing. If in the small print it says that I give away my house for not fulfilling some part then I will not be signing. A while ago I spoke to a Maori and said, "Are we happy little vegemites today." The person took offence and thought my comment was race related. It certainly was not meant that way. My (so called communication went down like a pointy lead brick.) My mistake! I will say that an upraising finger or two seems to be fairly universal.	Elephant (599)
364698	2005-06-21 07:08:00	Well, I just thought of this question myself, to be precise. No mistake (should I use "mistakes" or "mistake"?) in that particular previous post. Today in English class, we analysed Shakespeare Twelve night. There is one particular usage of a word which troubles (should I use "troubles" or "troubled"? )me very much. This is how it goes: "He stalked the servants' quarters as if he were lord and master. Why should it be "were" instead of 'was"? Much Cheers :) Good one James. Troubles or troubled. Well 'troubles' conveys the meaning that the problem that is troubling you is ongoing, whereas 'troubled' suggests that it was a problem at that time, but is not any more. Were: much more subtle. This is what my 'New Collins Concise Dictionary' says; "as a remnant of the past subjunctive in English, is used in formal contexts in clauses expressing hypotheses (if he were to die, she would inherit everything), suppositions contrary to fact (if I were you, I would be careful), and desire (I wish he were there now). And then... it goes onto say, wait for it... "In formal speech, however, was is often used instead.	Terry Porritt (14)
364699	2005-06-21 09:31:00	James, one for you...... Michael Swan (www.oup.com) As for the raging debate about dialects and elitism I think it's not really about purity or 'correctness' but practicality. In Spain, for example there 3-4 (depending on your defintions) other languages than what we all know of as Spanish. Almost everybody except the few remaining old-timers-in-the-hills speak Spanish as well as their own local language because you need to for work, for getting around, TV, radio, print, movies etc. The speakers of "sub-dialects' of minority groups I believe you would find are just as particlar about their (to us) peculiar grammar and diction as fuddy-duddy English grammarians are depicted as being about English. The issue above is really about bad grammar and diction, not any partiular language. :2cents:.............m	mark c (247)
364700	2005-06-21 23:11:00	Good point Mark. I hadn't heard of ebonics (AAVE - African-American Vernacular English). However it is simply a dialect of English. If people use it and understand it, then it is valid. The emergence of this dialect is a social construction. It rewards users who can immediately identify their own group by the language used. We all like to fit in. The problem with ebonics is that it is not widely used. So a speaker is going to have a problem reading and writing a job application, unless they are proficient in standard English, Cantonese, French, whatever. The other problem is that it appears to be dominant as a first and only language among young urban black Americans. They don't speak standard English when away from their peer group. Which means rightly or wrongly that a huge section of society can't easily understand them, so the dialect becomes a barrier. If young urban black people were wealthy, it wouldn't matter, but as things are.............. :groan: England is a ready example where dialect immediately defines the speaker's background and social class. And sets up barriers. These dialect prejudices exist in French and German as well and have profound social effects through class barriers. So ebonics may be an interesting development but it has some harsh social consequences - which is Bill Cosby's point.	Winston001 (3612)
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