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Thread ID: 58957	2005-06-17 07:17:00	Need help on clarifying some English words	Renmoo (66)	PC World Chat

Post ID	Timestamp	Content	User
364681	2005-06-20 09:34:00	The English language, its variants and dialects make a fascinating subject. For any who are really interested in this, I can recommend the book "The Adventure of English" with the subtitle "The Biography of a Language" written by Melvyn Bragg. Excellent stuff and easy reading too! Cheers Richard Must read that Richard. Also another marvellous book on the subject is "The Mother Tongue" by Bill Bryson. Misty ;)	Misty (368)
364682	2005-06-20 10:57:00	What's the difference between the phrase "the building has been upgraded" and "the building had been upgraded"? Cheers :) Technically I think the first use is the past tense and the second the past pluperfect tense. Whatever, as Mark explains, the phrases have two different flavours. Not far apart in meaning at all, but when read in a context, each phrase tells us something different. I'm glad Misty mentioned Bill Brysons book. It is excellent. And as I recall, it had an explanation for the development of grammatical rules about 300 years ago. What I found startling was that some American usages are more pure than our current words. It seems many American words date back to the arrival of the Founding Fathers at Plymouth Rock and have remained unchanged. English must be a right sod to learn. We have over 500,000 words at our command. And into the millions if we include specialised words from science, medicine, and computing. No wonder people find it confusing. But its strength is the depth of words. It isn't true that there are many words which mean the same. They each have subtlety and colour, flavour if you like which enhances meaning and communication. Eg. a ring of light - a circle of light. Ring is anglo-saxon in origin and has an overtone of warmth, solidity and richness. Circle is Latin derived and much more crisp, and defined. Same meanings but quite different concepts are conveyed. Picture a ring and then a circle of light in your mind and you'll see what I mean. :2cents:	Winston001 (3612)
364683	2005-06-20 13:31:00	Okay, thanks for the zest thing. Another question to ponder over: 1) The soldiers had died for the glory of their country. 2) The soldiers had died of glory for their country. Which is right and which is not? Cheers :) Here are some more thoughts on your query. 1) The soldiers had died for the glory of their country. 2) The soldiers had died of glory for their country. 1) It used to be considered glorious to die whilst in the act of fighting for one's country, thus they died for the glory of their country. (They died in order to glorify their country). 2) You can't die of glory. Glory does not kill. They died whilst seeking glory. The cause of death was war wounds (or some other deadly cause) during the course of their military service. PS It is nice to see someone seeking help in their use of the English language. There are quite a few members of this forum who are extremely eloquent in their use of it. You will find their postings easy to read and understand. Concentrate on those posts and consider how they manage to get their points across so briefly and clearly.	xxll (5902)
364684	2005-06-20 18:53:00	From what mark_c and Winston001 said, I suppose I have to be in a shock mood when someone tells me that "I am borned today"? Cheers :)	Renmoo (66)
364685	2005-06-20 20:03:00	From what mark_c and Winston001 said, I suppose I have to be in a shock mood when someone tells me that "I am borned today"? Cheers :)Shock mode? Perhaps confused... Does the person mean: 1. "I was born today" in which case they're getting the hang of language very quickly, and could be excused for thier poor spelling! 2. "I am bored today" in which case they need a life, or at least a hobby. 3. Something else entirely?	personthingy (1670)
364686	2005-06-20 22:53:00	I would be in skock mode if somebody told me "I was borned today" Hell, Even an english crusader could forgive the poor form from a one day old. Kids today, they just grow up so damn fast.....	Metla (12)
364687	2005-06-21 01:13:00	Interesting reading these posts on the English language. I'm sitting in a cyber cafe on Norfolk Island where the locals speak a strange version of English which you can just about understand if you listen carefully. They are the descendants of the Bounty mutineers so the language is a mixture of old Cornish and Taitian.	Dally (6292)
364688	2005-06-21 02:43:00	Quite frankly, I find this post a fantastic indicator of the diversity of language, ie, skills or lack thereof . Whilst it's true that it is somewhat easy to "talk" the correct English according to locale and social position, I believe that there is no excuse for not having the necessary skills to recognize (recognise? for NZ?) when a sentence or phrase is wrongly employed or poorly executed . It's the education or lack of it that I blame . <climbing onto my soapbox here> You see, I had the greater part of my education in East Coast (US) schools, which provided a much better foundation in structure and substance than California schools . When I arrived in Huntington Beach (Southern California's "Surf City" of musical fame), I had no other English classes that this wonderful sunshine-surf-sex-and-suds society could offer to me from their short list . So . . . in the interest of keeping me active in school, I got to teach the jocks (NZ translation: rugby and cricket players, no offense intended) all about English Prose, including works from Chaucer and his Canterbury Tales . The class went well, and at my 25th reunion, I actually had a couple of the beer-gutted ex-jocks tell me that they really enjoyed the class that year, and wish they had more than a semister's introduction to reading and writing . OK, I digressed a lot there . But, I said that as a setup for the next part (yawning?) . It's the poor quality of education that really causes some to feel they need to be defensive about the new speech . We have a new onslaught called "Ebonics" . It is nothing more than ghetto-street-drug-dealer tongue and really dumbs-down the kids who need sentient skills more than ever . The saddest part is that they defend their use of Ebonics and will not consider getting out of the death spiral in which they communicate . Dr . Bill Cosby (a black actor/comic here in the States, and you might know of him too in NZ), has taken a lot of heat for his same stance on this issue . He has lambasted the general audience (read here : Ebonics-speakers) for their lack of English skills . Back to my point, if I ever get there and make it, I feel that we are really missing out on a lot of fine culture and coloratura/colouratura for our own selves if we deny the need and use of good linguistic skills, no matter where we live or talk . <climbing down off soapbox now>	SurferJoe46 (51)
364689	2005-06-21 03:55:00	Ebonics does grate the nerves,however, they are communicating with each other just as well as you do with like minded souls.Is it to hard to comprehend that what they do is just not for you? So they of course don't give a damn about others trying to change them Perhaps your defensive because others don't and dont have to give jack to what you define as culture, or your desire to force it on others, I can easily understand the act of dismissel when an outsider turns up,condems them all, then holds up a rig rule of elitist crap about how it has to be to........	Metla (12)
364690	2005-06-21 04:00:00	your: Perhaps your defensive because others don't and dont have to give jack to what you define as culture, or your desire to force it on others, I can easily understand the act of dismissel when an outsider turns up,condems them all, then holds up a rig rule of elitist crap about how it has to be to........ is ALMOST OK, but it is from within their clique that the greatest heat is coming. Actually, some who were in that condition bootstrapped themselves outta a pit and got on with the real world. Elitist or not, there is no reason to slap the progenitors of societal mores and rules by being a leach on the very society they shun....anyway, before this post becomes a blog of it's own...I differ to know.	SurferJoe46 (51)
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