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| Thread ID: 59225 | 2005-06-25 05:27:00 | public access across private land Bill | mark c (247) | PC World Chat |
| Post ID | Timestamp | Content | User | ||
| 366960 | 2005-06-25 23:03:00 | Personally I'm with the farmers. I was raised in a farming town, and used to fish the local rivers. I was taught that the land I crossed was to be treated as if it were my fathers backyard (his pride and joy) and to always seek permission. If the farmer said no.. too bad - find somewhere else to fish. These days stuff all people give a crap about respect for someone elses property, and in some cases even their own parents. I wonder how Helen Clarke would feel if people went wandering through [the property she too is just looking after, and doesn't own] spitting on it, finding a bush to take a toilet break etc etc etc, while still staying 20 metres away from the house. I am sure she would be hitting the roof! |
Myth (110) | ||
| 366961 | 2005-06-25 23:07:00 | Good one TonyF, for a bit of information. And all the others. Very interesting to me. As fo r the dope growers - yeas hadn't thought of that make a real mess. Been lots of cases around here of dope being grown on paper roads for which so far no-one has been knicked. Not that I'm a big anti-dope person anyway but the legalities can cause headaches...........m | mark c (247) | ||
| 366962 | 2005-06-26 00:01:00 | There is no such thing as private land in New Zealand. You own the dwelling on the land, but not the land itself. That [the land] belongs to The Crown. Freehold just means you get to use it, pays rates etc. See Wiki (en.wikipedia.org) here. Just substitute New Zealand for England in the 2nd paragraph It is ironic indeed, that many people came to New Zealand in the early days to escape the oppression of the English landed gentry. They then proceeded to grab vast areas of land, especially in the South Island. It is also ironic that in fact in the UK tresspass laws are far less draconian than here, and also that there are literally tens of thousands of kilometres of public rights of ways across private land, that date back to Saxon times, and much earlier. Then there is 'common land' where commoners had rights of grazing, gathering wood from coppices etc. However as use of common land for such purposes declined a lot of that has been appropriated over the years by local landowners, first to extend arable areas and more latterly, by councils for housing development. As clerk to the local parish council of a Dorset village in the 1970s one job was to walk the local public rights of way once a year so as to preserve access rights. Another was also researching archives about common land. The number of people legally entitled to enter your property and house is surprisingly high, perhaps Winston can tell us exactly. |
Terry Porritt (14) | ||
| 366963 | 2005-06-26 00:28:00 | I wouldnt want anyone walking through my back yard leaving the gate open and their rubbish for me to pick up. Is't that the same for farmers. Im sure they dont want to spend the day closing their gates after some one else and cleaning up after the same people. Its their land and even if as Winston says they are only borrowing for while, That borrowing still gives them rights of of saying what happens to it or who enters it bounderies. I claim squatters rights. Who owns beach front property here or lives on Waiheke ? :2cents: |
beama (111) | ||
| 366964 | 2005-06-26 01:34:00 | one day we ran into some english trampers (who where a little under prepared, but thats another story) who where commenting on the differences between england and NZ. over there virutally all walks/tramping tracks are over private land. they are all marked tracks, have steps etc built to get over fences. even so they had to odd problem with the farmers exspecially when stock goes missing. do you really see the goverment forking out the $$$ to make tracks etc ?? i doubt it, the odds are they would simply leave it to the farmers. in typical nz fashion they will make some half baked law and wait till someone spends a small fortune on lawers before actually usering their brain and make laws that actually work. |
tweak'e (69) | ||
| 366965 | 2005-06-26 02:10:00 | one day we ran into some English trampers (who where a little under prepared, but thats another story) who where commenting on the differences between england and NZ. over there virtually all walks/tramping tracks are over private land. they are all marked tracks, have steps etc built to get over fences. even so they had to odd problem with the farmers especially when stock goes missing. do you really see the government forking out the $$$ to make tracks etc ?? i doubt it, the odds are they would simply leave it to the farmers. in typical NZ fashion they will make some half baked law and wait till someone spends a small fortune on lawyers before actually using their brain and make laws that actually work. So true Tweak.Do you think Helen will be able to tell us what to do,some think she is Omnipotent. |
Cicero (40) | ||
| 366966 | 2005-06-26 02:39:00 | So true Tweak.Do you think Helen will be able to tell us what to do,some think she is Omnipotent. *shudder* |
pine-o-cleen (2955) | ||
| 366967 | 2005-06-26 03:46:00 | It is ironic indeed, that many people came to New Zealand in the early days to escape the oppression of the English landed gentry . They then proceeded to grab vast areas of land, especially in the South Island . It is also ironic that in fact in the UK tresspass laws are far less draconian than here, and also that there are literally tens of thousands of kilometres of public rights of ways across private land, that date back to Saxon times, and much earlier . Then there is 'common land' where commoners had rights of grazing, gathering wood from coppices etc . However as use of common land for such purposes declined a lot of that has been appropriated over the years by local landowners, first to extend arable areas and more latterly, by councils for housing development . As clerk to the local parish council of a Dorset village in the 1970s one job was to walk the local public rights of way once a year so as to preserve access rights . Another was also researching archives about common land . The number of people legally entitled to enter your property and house is surprisingly high, perhaps Winston can tell us exactly . Good stuff Terry . Sorry I can't tell you about legal rights of access but I did see a list some years ago and it was extensive - customs, police, meter-readers, IRD etc . And the irony of dispossessed people grabbing land in a new country is accurate . Mind you, they were simply doing what generations had lived with in England . The difference was that the UK had been settled for thousands of years and certain rights came to be accepted . Common land, public pathways through private land . However NZ was a tabula rasa - there were no historic rights of way to be respected . The whole concept was replaced by the more modern idea of surveyed roads which at least had the benefit of certainty as opposed to paths which changed over centuries . The only attempt to create defacto public (common) land was the Queen's Chain . I don't know the history but this is a complex legal puzzle which doesn't need further elaboration here . Martyn is correct - all land is fundamentally owned by the Crown . The fee simple estate which is commonly referred to as freehold, is a lesser title but in practice is completely secure . Unless it is needed for a road or dam, in which case it can be compulsorily purchased . :horrified As a matter of interest, the Queen, Prince Charles etc own their land in a fee tail estate . Only for their lifetime and thence onto their heirs . So they can lease it but never sell it . We don't have entailed estates in NZ and I'm not sure that you could even create one . |
Winston001 (3612) | ||
| 366968 | 2005-06-26 04:12:00 | Typical, thanks to the link given earlier you can see the truth lost in the hysteria of the moment . . . . beehive . govt . nz/ViewDocument . aspx?DocumentID=21918" target="_blank">www . beehive . govt . nz The Government has decided to embrace the Queen’s Chain ethos, which would see walking access would be extended along water ways with access value throughout the country, Rural Affairs Minister Jim Sutton said today . Mr Sutton said that Cabinet had endorsed a three-year programme which would see a new access agency clearly set out legal access where it currently exists and negotiate walking access across private property where there is none now . However, the decision would not see the Queen’s Chain automatically extended to cover all the missing areas along rivers, lakes, and beaches, he said . The original Queen’s Chain has few restrictions on it, and we want to be quite clear that this new access is for walkers only . It is not for people in vehicles, people with dogs, or people with guns, unless they have the express permission of the landholder . Mr Sutton said the new 5 metre-wide access ways would also give way to a 50 metre exclusion zone around houses, and a 20 metre zone around farm buildings . This is a decision to enhance walkers’ access, not a right to intrude on people’s homes or business buildings . Its not open access to roam across land but narrow access to reach waterways, for fishermen, trampers etc . Can we get back to more important issues instead of the media beat up of an act that is trying to enshirne the queens chain principles? We are just victims and patsies for a national led protest movement that is only serving to obfuscate the election and take the attention away from more important issues . Why can't they focus on the more importants thing like how did the govt make a 1 bill dollar error in the Kyoto agreement, then happen to come across 500 million just in election year . |
netchicken (4843) | ||
| 366969 | 2005-06-26 04:19:00 | As per google. In law, eminent domain is the power of the state to appropriate private property for its own use without the owner's consent. Governments most commonly use the power of eminent domain when the acquisition of real property is necessary for the completion of a public project such as a road, and the owner of the required property is unwilling to negotiate a price for its sale. In many jurisdictions the power of eminent domain is tempered with a right that just compensation be made for the appropriation. This is the usa,is it the same here I wonder? |
Cicero (40) | ||
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