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Thread ID: 150531	2022-03-13 22:01:00	Petrol versus Electric	kenj (9738)	PC World Chat

Post ID	Timestamp	Content	User
1484953	2022-03-14 02:38:00	Take into consideration that the price of electricity will increase and also as the percentage of electric vehicles becomes significant you can guarantee that there will be some form of road user charges introduced.	CliveM (6007)
1484954	2022-03-14 02:42:00	his wife bought him a new Mercury outboard motor for him as a Christmas present I need one of them. Bet she even makes the snacks too.	allblack (6574)
1484955	2022-03-14 04:58:00	Keeping the Vitara makes the most sense financially. I bought an EV because I wanted one and I really like it but it's not a great decision financially. Whatever you spend on a new vehicle would likely equal many years of fuel and maintenance on your existing one. It only really makes sense to consider an EV or PHEV when you are looking at buying a new car anyway. I got a 2018 40kwh leaf with 22000km on it and after the rebate of 3450 it cost me 38,545 which could have bought me an upscale brand new corolla hybrid with a warranty. I just decided I wanted the EV and bought it, probably the only time in my life I'm going to spend that much on a car. Might regret it in a few years we'll see. We are still 5-10 years away from price parity according to most estimates but the 24kwh leafs are likely to devalue really fast because of their limited utility IMHO and might be a good buy as a second vehicle for commuting around town. They are also a little higher than a standard car because of the battery under the floor so it might be worth sitting in one just to see if it's comfortable getting in and out of. I owned a 24kwh model as a second car for a year and it did more than 90% of my needs easily but was terrible for long trips - and not any cheaper than a similar petrol vehicle when using fast chargers. Mostly my opinion for now is wait a few years unless you really want a new car now.	dugimodo (138)
1484956	2022-03-14 05:15:00	No, I don't want a new car. It was really just an excersise to look at the pros and cons. I have only driven the Vitara 2 or 3 times in the last 12 months and don't intend to renew my licence I when I turn 80 in October. No good buying a new car for SWMBO! She just wouldn't get pleasure out of a new car like I would if I was to be driving. :) Ken	kenj (9738)
1484957	2022-03-14 05:23:00	My own take on the subject: In order of CO2 desirability, PHEV, PLug in Hybrid, Full BEV. A hybrid that doesn't plug in gets all its energy through combustion of fossil fuels, and while it might be more efficient, it has all that extra hardware to maintain and integrate and to haul around, and is likely to be a black hole for money once maintenance is required, with effectively 2 different systems being integrated. A plug in hybrid is marginally better, but is very limited by the range that can be achieved on battery alone. Once past that range it is no better than any other PHEV. If the daily drive can be achieved entirely on battery only, then it is a reasonable choice. But much like the PHEV, it has all that hardware to maintain, and the heavier reliance on such small batteries is likely to age them and reduce their range and efficiency more quickly. It's also a challenge to drive without the combustion engine kicking in, so initial goals on EV only travel will likkely not be met. Full BEV eliminates the issues of combustion, furious temperatures, exhaust systems, fuel and ignition systems, starters, gearboxes, clutches, fumes. For regular round town use they are very efficient. For long trips there's the issue of charging times (or availability of fast chargers). Not such a great choice if you travel with the holiday rush, when everyone else is also lining up for 30+ minutes on a charger. I'm keen for a Tesla, being convinced they're well ahead on the tech and the efficiency and charging times. I'm horrified though by the repair costs quoted after any accidents involving panel damage. US$10K+ is not at all unusual. Global demand for nickel, lithium, copper and aluminium means BEVs are very UNLIKELY to get any chaeper anytime soon, but the same can definitely be said of petrol as well. Even if global political issues resolve to drop the petrol prices, there remains the underlying carbon cost that will continue to be applied more and more until people are forced to make a chage away from combustion.	Paul.Cov (425)
1484958	2022-03-14 05:44:00	Tiny nit pick - PHEV stands for Plug-in Hybrid electric, I think you meant to say Hybrid or HEV. And I mostly agree with your comments. HEV, PHEV, BEV Couple points. Most modern plug in hybrids can do somewhere around 50km on a charge, which is enough for most city dwellers daily use to be pure electric most of the time. The main point of them though IMHO is for people who just can't live without the long range and quick refuel for longer trips. A PHEV outlander is worse on fuel on the open road than most of its competition including regular petrol SUVs once you get past the pure electric range which makes it a poor choice for regular long haul travellers. A regular hybrid RAV4 would do better. Good around town though if you want an SUV for that purpose. And Toyota at least has proven it's hybrid technology, cab drivers and ride share drivers all over the world have flocked to the prius and in some cases camry hybrids, racked up huge miles on them, and gotten reliability as good as any other car around. The prius has topped the US market for reliability many times. www.caranddriver.com for%20a%20combined%20121%20horsepower. In fact because of the way toyota designed them there are quite a few things a prius doesn't have to fail - belts, pulleys, alternator, starter, and so on. Oh and the brakes last longer just like a BEV due to regen braking and less weight and the gearbox is more reliable than traditional ones. So it's not so simple as more hardware = more expensive to maintain. There is potential for big repair bills in a worse case scenario, but if looked after they actually can be better than "simpler" vehicles. One note for hybrid owners, find out where the air intake for your battery is and make sure it's kept clean and clear of obstruction, the thing that kills hybrid batteries is heat and on my old axio hybrid for example the intake is beneath the rear passenger side seat where it could easily get blocked if you didn't know about it.	dugimodo (138)
1484959	2022-03-14 05:59:00	Ignore the battery replacement myth, I've never heard of anyone having to replace a battery. That's what ICE drivers spout to make them feel better, along with the BUT YOU MINE FOR BATTERY COMPONENTS (yes but they're not burnt you morons, and can be reused) . It is an issue. www.dailymail.co.uk www.1news.co.nz thespinoff.co.nz flipthefleet.org Remember it's fairly new here. Many haven't had to yet. Us old car owners worry about stuff like that though as we are the ones buying the old cheap stuff.	piroska (17583)
1484960	2022-03-14 06:40:00	I watch this channel often and this was posted today. youtu.be Could be the answer to it all. Ken	kenj (9738)
1484961	2022-03-14 07:25:00	The argument for a full BEV is possibly a little different as maintenance costs are "supposed" to me much lower. No oil, very little brake pads, no filters. So I don't know what the servicing costs are. LDV just came out with a ute, that you might be able to use for comparison as it's one of the cheaper full electric higher up vehicles. So that may change your payback period slightly (unsure if AA publish a $ per km change for PHEV or BEV vehicles) Given you're comparing a PHEV then yes only the l/100km figure would change. And you're paying a price premium for the vehicle, and still needing petrol (admittedly less) the batteries have cooling systems which need to be maintained, and they are somewhat critical. i think its the early leaf that has battery issues due to it being passively cooled. all the usual mechanicals are the same, braking, steering etc. obviously a bit cheaper with no engine oil or air/fuel filters. LDV i would not touch with a barge pole. a budget manufacture with bleeding edge tech, thats a disaster waiting to happen.	tweak'e (69)
1484962	2022-03-14 07:28:00	As I see it, it's not worth considering? The manufacturers will have to look at bringing out a cheaper model although I don't know what costs are in that case. Petrol engines are complex to make and assemble but batteries are expensive? Your thoughts on my calculations please. Ken :) i think your about right. new electric vehicles are expensive and not really practical to do it based on economy alone. however i think that will change over time. once the main stream manufactures get into it i expect to see prices come down.	tweak'e (69)
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