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Thread ID: 59349	2005-06-29 07:50:00	Home Ventilation systems	wmoore (6009)	PC World Chat

Post ID	Timestamp	Content	User
368034	2007-10-02 02:23:00	I'm not following this logic at all . Homes need to have 20-30% humidity to keep them livable . . . . We have to add moisture to the air to keep our noses from drying out and our skin cracking . . . . we do that by triple-pane windows, R-values in the walls over 20, the ceiling over 35 and the floor over 15 . We have gas heat, but somehow the flue gasses never get into the home to allow condensation to collect on the windows . We are not air-conditioned . . I find that particularly drying to the air too . I like a swamp cooler better for overall cost and cooling . Homes that ARE AC'd have moisture injection devices to keep them humid . Our windows remain basically closed all day in the cold months, open to allow the swamped air to escape in the daytime . . . and sometimes in the night too in the hotter months . I never installed the fireplace, and that might make a difference . . . possibly . Our ceiling is solid injected foam all the way up to the ridgepole and all the trusses are inter-injected with the same product . At the peak, it is over 4 feet thick . We have a snow load rating of 200 lbs/square foot, although we never see that kinda snow here in SoCal . We can change the air in the whole house in less than 1 minute with the swamper not using the wetting pump . We don't ever see condensate at all . . not even on the windows or walls . I think it's basically an insulation problem that your guys are having . . . stone, cement shingles or wood siding doesn't make a difference if the surface temperature on the inside cannot mingle with the outside temperature . Hope that makes sense . Gas cooking DOES import some moisture, but we, like I said, bring moisture into the home for livability values . If I see my breath in the house at any time . . . I then turn on the automatic heater controls which I shouldda done the night before!	SurferJoe46 (51)
368035	2007-10-02 03:32:00	Wow blast from the past. I now have a de-humidifier and as well as remove the condensation from my kitchen/computer room, it also gives a bit of heating since, as is not pointed out anywhere in the literature, all the losses from a de-humidifier come out in the room it is running in, so even though cool air may emerge from the outlet the net effect is heating. I don't have to use my heater much when it is running. This Winter we have just had a spell of below 10deg C for more than three weeks in a row, the longest I can ever remember, and it was not too bad with the new de-humidifier and a bit of heating, yay.	zqwerty (97)
368036	2007-10-02 21:47:00	update We ended up getting a system from healthaire. Very good service and product. No pushy salespeople. And didn't talk crap. Happy with thier product.	wmoore (6009)
368037	2007-10-03 09:28:00	Interesting read - despite the age of the post. The amount of misinformation in some of the thread is astounding ........ When we moved to Invercargill 10 years ago, we brought a 50 year old family home - metal roof, not the greatest insulation (although we upgraded over time). Installed a multi-fuel burner. House was also well situated for sun. Had ongoing issues with condensation, mould, and (when we started the family) kids with asthma symptoms & intermittant flu every Winter. Living area warm because of the Logaire (burner) - but at nights the bedrooms etc would suffer temp drop to the low teens (we measured it). Ran the night-store but it didn't help a lot & definitely added to the power bill! Used a dehumidifer for drying - expensive (although we did not realise it). Long story short ..... checked out 3 main Ventilation Systems Co's (HRV, DVS and Moisture Master). HRV were a nightmare - very expensive, recommended something we didn't want, and (very rudely) argued with me when I rang to advise them that we were going with another company (I advised as I always do - out of politeness for them giving their time in coming to see us). MM & DVS very similar systems, both costed well, and both work well. In-laws have a MM installed & they swear by it. We went with the DVS because they had a new gen control pad (G3) which allowed us better control of heat. After DVS installed, house was both noticeably warmer and noticeably drier. Kids stopped getting flus, asthma a thing of the past. House also easier to heat. Power bill down - and this was in Winter. Could be below 10 deg outside in middle of day (but sunny) and we'd be getting 35 - 40 deg C trickling down from the roof (eg dry air from roof cavity, heated by sun on roof - free heat!). Can't say enough good things about the system - it really is that good! Now to some of the misconceptions: - heating from roof - see above. It works. With the G3 system, the fan regulates so that in Winter it turns itself up when the heat is there, and turns the fan down at night as the heat from the roof dissipates. Summer setting feeds cooler air at night faster for opposite effect. You will get better heat from metal roof as opposed to clay tile - but metal also cools more quickly. - cost. DVS = approx 5c per day compared with 43c per 10 hours a dehudimifier runs (check it here (www.consumer.org.nz)). - smell. Never noticed any smell from the DVS & remember almost everyone down here uses solid fuel burners. Simply not true. We've just build a new house down here (been in it 2 weeks) and the first thing we organised during the build was to have a DVS installed. Everything is really well insulated & the house is really toasty with just the DVS (installed the heater unit as well but so far haven't used it) + a heatpump. House sits constantly around 20 deg. Cold here today - but the DVS was dragging down 35 C from the roof at mid-day. According to the G3 - roof temp has now dropped (11pm) to 13 deg, but house temp still at 18 deg. By morning it may drop another deg if it is really cold. All in all, we've had nothing but a positive experience. Best investment we could have made IMHO.	Brooko (8444)
368038	2007-10-03 10:22:00	Yeah, try the DVS with a tile roof, you won't be so impressed.	zqwerty (97)
368039	2007-10-03 10:54:00	Try it with a metal roof - you will be! :) (that includes metal tiles BTW). Also zqwerty - I don't think you can blame your situation on the DVS poor performance. Have you actually approached DVS and explained issues to them and asked for help. We've been amazed at how good their feedback, expertise and suggestions are. They helped us with set-up. Am sure if you approached them - they would at least give some suggestions as to how you could improve your own situation.	Brooko (8444)
368040	2007-10-03 11:03:00	Well that's an impractical suggestion, how much would that cost! Pity that the people who sold it to my parents didn't mention that drawback before they bought the DVS. Sucking stinky, cold, smoky air into the house which the filter, added after complaints, does something to alleviate, the smells and smoke I mean, not the cold.	zqwerty (97)
368041	2007-10-03 11:31:00	Seems to me that it doesn't matter what I say does it - your mind is made up anyway. Our experience with DVS has been all positive. My question still stands - have you been back to them, told them the problems you've had, and asked them for assistance in rectifying the situation? Here is the website address (http://www.dvs.co.nz/). They have contact details on their website. Oh & BTW - I wasn't suggesting your parents get a new roof. You commented that it's rubbish with tiles. I'm advising it's excellent with metal. OP (way back) was asking for experiences. You've definitely covered the negatives - but I think you'll find that a lot of people who've used them are very happy. We know of 4 people with DVS or MM installed & not one negative comment. Understand and sympathise re your position - but if you don't approach them to do something about it - then things won't improve - will they? Ball is in your court.	Brooko (8444)
368042	2007-10-03 12:05:00	They did everything they could about six years ago when it was installed and we complained. It is not a matter of minds made up, it is a matter of bitter experience, and of a product being installed in an inappropriate situation, with, I dare say, the profit motive uppermost.	zqwerty (97)
368043	2007-10-04 03:58:00	Interesting read - despite the age of the post. The amount of misinformation in some of the thread is astounding ........ When we moved to Invercargill 10 years ago, we brought a 50 year old family home - metal roof, not the greatest insulation (although we upgraded over time). Installed a multi-fuel burner. House was also well situated for sun. Had ongoing issues with condensation, mould, and (when we started the family) kids with asthma symptoms & intermittant flu every Winter. Living area warm because of the Logaire (burner) - but at nights the bedrooms etc would suffer temp drop to the low teens (we measured it). Ran the night-store but it didn't help a lot & definitely added to the power bill! Used a dehumidifer for drying - expensive (although we did not realise it). Long story short ..... checked out 3 main Ventilation Systems Co's (HRV, DVS and Moisture Master). HRV were a nightmare - very expensive, recommended something we didn't want, and (very rudely) argued with me when I rang to advise them that we were going with another company (I advised as I always do - out of politeness for them giving their time in coming to see us). MM & DVS very similar systems, both costed well, and both work well. In-laws have a MM installed & they swear by it. We went with the DVS because they had a new gen control pad (G3) which allowed us better control of heat. After DVS installed, house was both noticeably warmer and noticeably drier. Kids stopped getting flus, asthma a thing of the past. House also easier to heat. Power bill down - and this was in Winter. Could be below 10 deg outside in middle of day (but sunny) and we'd be getting 35 - 40 deg C trickling down from the roof (eg dry air from roof cavity, heated by sun on roof - free heat!). Can't say enough good things about the system - it really is that good! Now to some of the misconceptions: - heating from roof - see above. It works. With the G3 system, the fan regulates so that in Winter it turns itself up when the heat is there, and turns the fan down at night as the heat from the roof dissipates. Summer setting feeds cooler air at night faster for opposite effect. You will get better heat from metal roof as opposed to clay tile - but metal also cools more quickly. - cost. DVS = approx 5c per day compared with 43c per 10 hours a dehudimifier runs (check it here (www.consumer.org.nz)). - smell. Never noticed any smell from the DVS & remember almost everyone down here uses solid fuel burners. Simply not true. We've just build a new house down here (been in it 2 weeks) and the first thing we organised during the build was to have a DVS installed. Everything is really well insulated & the house is really toasty with just the DVS (installed the heater unit as well but so far haven't used it) + a heatpump. House sits constantly around 20 deg. Cold here today - but the DVS was dragging down 35 C from the roof at mid-day. According to the G3 - roof temp has now dropped (11pm) to 13 deg, but house temp still at 18 deg. By morning it may drop another deg if it is really cold. All in all, we've had nothing but a positive experience. Best investment we could have made IMHO. They work ok in some houses, but not others, as not all houses are the same. One problem with them is that they take the air from the roof, which often contains fibre glass insulation. This means that it is pumping fibre glass particles into the house. The filters they use aren't enough to prevent the microscopic fibre glass particles. Breathing in fibre glass particles is very dangerous for your future health.	robbyp (2751)
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