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Thread ID: 59867	2005-07-15 00:19:00	Feminism and the State of Society	Veale (536)	PC World Chat

Post ID	Timestamp	Content	User
372418	2005-07-15 01:50:00	Nah drivel. People have been saying exactly the same thing for 1000's of years. Just the clthes, weapons and types of vandalism etc change. You think when all mummies were stuck at home all kids were little angels? Take off the rose tinted glasses.	pctek (84)
372419	2005-07-15 02:09:00	Regarding so-called 'dole bludging', come on get real. It may go on to a certain extent, but dont forget, unemployment was a governement policy under Rogernomics, The New Right, and National. Back in the early 1970s and earlier, there were about 6 registered unemployed, and Social Welfare, or whatever they were called then knew the names of all. Around 1975 when we were looking into to coming to NZ, the "New Zealand News" paper reported 470 registered unemployed. Since those days, much unskilled and semi-skilled jobs have just simply disappeared, so there is always going to be now a large base of unskilled virtually unemployable people. It is a fact of current economic thinking.	Terry Porritt (14)
372420	2005-07-15 03:27:00	Nah drivel. People have been saying exactly the same thing for 1000's of years. Just the clthes, weapons and types of vandalism etc change. You think when all mummies were stuck at home all kids were little angels? Take off the rose tinted glasses. Rubbish, where you been living, Gotham City? It is statisically proven that crime, and more importantly 'serious crime' (although our legal system fails to distinguish between the two) has risen dramatically over the last few decades. Regarding so-called 'dole bludging', come on get real. It may go on to a certain extent, but dont forget, unemployment was a governement policy under Rogernomics, The New Right, and National. Back in the early 1970s and earlier, there were about 6 registered unemployed, and Social Welfare, or whatever they were called then knew the names of all. Around 1975 when we were looking into to coming to NZ, the "New Zealand News" paper reported 470 registered unemployed. Since those days, much unskilled and semi-skilled jobs have just simply disappeared, so there is always going to be now a large base of unskilled virtually unemployable people.It is a fact of current economic thinking So the fact that there is a large base of "unskilled" workers makes it ok for them to sit around on the dole waiting for unskilled and semi-skilled positions to become available. Wake up, the apathy of these unskilled workers is not due to jobs being unavailable it is due to the fact that: a) It is convenient b) We as society accept it c)They're too lazy to get off their unskilled ass and become skilled! Dont know where you live but where i'm from they ARE called dole bludgers, none of this "No, we're actually on a benefit". True, THEY benefit but all they do is bludge off the working person.	Veale (536)
372421	2005-07-15 03:47:00	You haven't read properly what I wrote Veale. So-called dole bludging only came about after unemployment was used as an instrument of government, and the rise of an uncaring society. Not everyone is capable of being an entrepreneur, or highly self motivated, or skilled enough to get and hold down a decent job. Putting it crudely many people are just too thick, but it isn't necessarily their fault. Jobs within their capabilities have to be provided. As I said, but you didn't want to see it, back in the early 1970s only 400 or so were unemployed, and before that even less, so there :)	Terry Porritt (14)
372422	2005-07-15 04:10:00	Until the early 70s we had a manufacturing base. That supported a huge number of people. We had Public Services. They employed a large number of people.	Graham L (2)
372423	2005-07-15 05:12:00	You haven't read properly what I wrote Veale. So-called dole bludging only came about after unemployment was used as an instrument of government, and the rise of an uncaring society. Not everyone is capable of being an entrepreneur, or highly self motivated, or skilled enough to get and hold down a decent job. Putting it crudely many people are just too thick, but it isn't necessarily their fault. Jobs within their capabilities have to be provided. As I said, but you didn't want to see it, back in the early 1970s only 400 or so were unemployed, and before that even less, so there :) From the angle you are taking Terry I will make an asumption that you either are, have been, or approve of the dole? Your argument that not everyone can be an entrepreneur or be self-motivated etc is crude and without justification. There is NO valid excuse for being on the dole. The key to this is part of your argument, self-motivation is the only way that you will get a job, failure to do so is entirely your fault, its your life, why should other people motivate you? To blame it on something or someone else is a complete cop-out. And so we dont lose sight of my original post, this can then be related back to PARENTS motivating their kids to get off their ass and do something, handouts are for people who have given up.	Veale (536)
372424	2005-07-15 05:36:00	I see that messrs Douglas, Richardson , "there is no other way" Bolger, Shipley et al, have been very successful in raising a new generation of uncaring Dickensian society where the poor are to blame for being poor, (when debtors were thrown into jail until they paid their debts), and when the unemployed are solely to blame for being without work. 200,000 were unemployed after Rogernomics, and you think it was their fault? I feel sorry for you Veale, and people who share your uncaring outlook.	Terry Porritt (14)
372425	2005-07-15 05:41:00	Bah. Everytime I have needed work I have just contacted an earth moving company and told them I can swing a shovel, are prepared to work whatever hours and will turn up everyday on time. Why is that to low for the unemployed to do? Because its easier to sleep in and live off handouts.	Metla (12)
372426	2005-07-15 06:04:00	I see that messrs Douglas, Richardson , "there is no other way" Bolger, Shipley et al, have been very successful in raising a new generation of uncaring Dickensian society where the poor are to blame for being poor, (when debtors were thrown into jail until they paid their debts), and when the unemployed are solely to blame for being without work. 200,000 were unemployed after Rogernomics, and you think it was their fault? I feel sorry for you Veale, and people who share your uncaring outlook. Introducing the Labour governments "PressF1" correspondent! Cry me a river Terry the link below shows there are currently 83,000 unemployed people. If they were all (and i know they arent ALL) on the dole, and with the average $130pw of dole that equals a rough figure of $1/2 Billion. Not exactly bloody peanuts is it Terry? Due to the fact that I like most NZers have to wait an age to see a doctor, get an operation, fill up my car or any other menial task that could be improved with this money, it kinda get on my wick. Uncaring? I pay my taxes like any other person and expect that the money is channeled correctly! www.jobsletter.org.nz	Veale (536)
372427	2005-07-15 06:22:00	Current unemployment is very low in NZ, but certainly higher than when Terry arrived. Studies show that full employment is an historical anomaly. Developed nations have enjoyed full employment over the last 150 years. Firstly as a result of the industrial revolution, and secondly driven by the demands of wars. But historically - and true of third world countries today - 6 to 10% of the population did not have paid work. They subsisted on charity and fending for themselves. I don't think we have many dole bludgers in NZ today although such people will always exist. The reality is that some folk just aren't playing with a full deck of cards. There will always be a group of people for whom life is bewildering and who struggle to find a job. But those aren't the problem. It is the ones who have grown up in a family where none of the adults have ever known steady employment, who just assume they don't need to work. Or think they are unemployable. Bloody tough to break the cycle. As to whether feminism is to blame for the lack of courtesy and respect among people? Someone else can answer that. :D	Winston001 (3612)
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