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Thread ID: 59981	2005-07-19 02:35:00	My view exactly re muslim attitudes.	Cicero (40)	PC World Chat

Post ID	Timestamp	Content	User
373385	2005-07-20 12:47:00	Agh, some people just have no idea about English/British history. For a start, they never "invaded" anyone.... if you think invaded, then think the Nords, the Romans, the Spanish, the Mongolians and more recently the Germans and Japanese. England was always a victim of invaders, from the North, East and South. What England did was colonise, which ain't nearly as bad as outright pillage, plunder and massacre. Sure, England is guilty in her past of brutally trying to assimilate other nations, but she always preserved their cultures, and in fact valued them. Think about it... if England invaded any foreign nation, where is the legacy of it today... I mean what other territory in the world apart from the British Isles is called England? (ok, apart from the Falklands et al which were basically devoid of any national status at their time). Give the English a break - they weren't anywhere near as bad as their contemporarys! Wrong. England regularly invaded France (see history of Henry II, father of Richard the Lionheart) and kept a large force there to hold the conquered territories including Aquitaine, Poitiers, Dunkirk. Also Spain (Gibraltar), North America (French North America, the newly independent USA), the Suez, Afghanistan and Kashmir (in the "Great Game"), Ireland (still holds Northern Ireland), Wales, Scotland. These are the only ones off the top of my head.	vinref (6194)
373386	2005-07-20 13:14:00	And ever it is thus. I'm sure you are right Terry. Time moves on for all of us. As they say, "the past is another country, they do things differently there". The British Isles is a remarkable nation. By the 18th century this small island country ruled the world economically and militarily. They competed with the Dutch, Belgians, Germans, French, Spanish and Portuguese with no obvious advantages yet trounced the lot. Quite why is difficult to say. Historians say it was the English rule of law and parliamentry system which proved the difference. Continental systems were Roman based and mixed church and state. I'd say it was the rule of law, separation of the church and state, private property entitlements, transportation networks (the English were expert navigators, and the "empire" was a maritime one), isolation. The Dutch, Spanish, Portuguese, French, Italians (and all the city states therein) one time or another had all bar the isolation.	vinref (6194)
373387	2005-07-20 13:28:00	Seeing as I don't own the country I could care less what cultures people come from and what they do,untill it infinges on my day its not an issue,though they should be made to live by the same laws as the rest of us (that means no face masks in court ladies,and if the mad bombers could cut it out it would be good) During my time in Sydney I lived in places so multicultrel it was hard sometimes to remember what country you were in, 2 things that I noticed, The range and selection of food was excellent and when the neighbours argued I couldn't understand a word of it. That kinda sums it up nicely for me too. (except I never lived in Sydney)	Greg (193)
373388	2005-07-20 13:35:00	Just as a matter of idle curiosity, how many of us read the article Cicero referred to? I only ask because there has been a deathly silence on what is an interesting and relevant issue, to wit: tolerance of other cultures. How far do we go before saying enough is enough? I did. I was going to offer even better ones from the NYTimes and the Guardian, but things quickly degenerated. The young British-born and bred men who carried out the hideous act in London did so at the behest of an evil death cult that had sucked them in. It has not and will not suck in the rest of the law-abiding and peaceful muslims who contribute greatly to British society, and are not ungrateful for what British society has given them. Just as Christianity, Buddhism and Hinduism, political ideologies have their own death cults, so does Islam. And like all of them, the vast number of muslims feel pain and empathy for the suffering, and wish for nothing but to live in peace.	vinref (6194)
373389	2005-07-20 13:40:00	What a joy it must be to live in the dream world you call reality. Huh? It's called history, pal. Your distorted perception of the past doesn't change the "reality" of what happened.	Greg (193)
373390	2005-07-20 21:30:00	Just as a matter of idle curiosity, how many of us read the article Cicero referred to? I only ask because there has been a deathly silence on what is an interesting and relevant issue, to wit: tolerance of other cultures. How far do we go before saying enough is enough? There is a difference in perception of multiculturalism between Britain which had not been invaded since 1066, and had thus over the intervening years established the habits, customs, speech and the English race as we know it today, and multiculturalism in newer countries such as Australia and New Zealand. Here a building 100 years old becomes a heritage, in England it is probably an Edwardian slum to be knocked down! So like is not being compared with like. The influx into Britain after the war of peoples with different cultures and ways of living was rapid and massive compared to previous generations. The country had been at war defending its existence, housing was in short supply due to bombing and 'baby boomers'. Vast areas of housing had been scheduled for demolition and replacement even before the Depression, but economics slowed that right down. That very briefly was the scene that the ordinary Englishman, the returned soldier, the struggling young families in a country with rationing, was faced with when there was this sudden immigration on a massive scale, an invasion of alien cultures, "invaders" if you like, who absorbed resources, took over housing, and often had preferential treatment. Those were the problems leading to race riots and eventually to the London bombers. I saw the problems at first first hand. So, the multiculturalism in Ciceros article should be interpreted more in that light, not by comparison with anyones experiences in Australia or here. Anglo-Saxon behaviour in the rest of the world is a different issue, and why it came into this thread I don't know. Hope I didn't bore anyone too much!	Terry Porritt (14)
373391	2005-07-20 22:58:00	Apart from being a bit of a lefty,you seem a jolly good chap and not at all boring T. We seem to have established nothing changes.one starts talking about one thing and it ends up people showing their prejudices,seems we are all subject to this,apart of course from dear old 001,such a comfort to have around to keep things perspective.	Cicero (40)
373392	2005-07-20 23:13:00	I have no more prejudices against the poms then I do against the muslims,which is none,zero,zip,nadda,noithing . Though I always found the Scots and Irish better company . . . . probally due to their binge drinking ability . What I do take exception to is people looking down their noses at (our) current society and comparing (always unfavourbly) to some mythical home land . If our education,langague and culture is so inferior then go the hell home . Oh wait, That home doesn't exist anymore . . . . . . Now if you want some fire, lets talk about the French .	Metla (12)
373393	2005-07-20 23:24:00	. . . . . . . . . . . . . What I do take exception to is people looking down their noses at (our) current society and comparing (always unfavourbly) to some mythical home land . If our education,langague and culture is so inferior then go the hell home . Oh wait, That home doesn't exist anymore . . . . . . I am beginning to think Metla that what is bothering you is that you were actually born here, and so had no choice in your nationality, correct me if I'm wrong . I actually chose to come and live here, be a NZ citizen, reject my British passport, dont you think that makes a difference? Tell me anywhere where I have compared NZ unfavourably with UK .	Terry Porritt (14)
373394	2005-07-20 23:24:00	If our education,language and culture is so inferior then go the hell home. You don't have any prejudices!You could have fooled me. There is certainly a time for fire,but on occasion it would be nice to have a bit of calm reason.	Cicero (40)
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