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Thread ID: 60006	2005-07-19 21:57:00	Hit back at spammers	Greg (193)	PC World Chat

Post ID	Timestamp	Content	User
373549	2005-07-22 02:19:00	Okie doke. Lets say for instance that you've pissed me off for some reason, lets say illogical posts about spam on a forum. I write an extremely short script to pick up a couple of hundred domains.and start randomly firing mail out to them spamvertising www.millerton.co.nz ..... Well ninja, here we have a flaw in the system. It could be misused by spam like ativity to direct attacks at others who are not involved in the spam chain in any way. However, most spam is designed to attract the recipiant to a site they own. If it gets to the point that unsolicited email inviting people to thier site is something noone wants, then this idea has worked	personthingy (1670)
373550	2005-07-22 03:06:00	Ninja, Feel free to write a script that spams my medic site to a few thousand people, I could do with the traffic......Send money. Well ninja, here we have a flaw in the system. It could be misused by spam like ativity to direct attacks at others who are not involved in the spam chain in any way.In much the same way as it affects the thousands of other sites hosted at the ISP/ServerFarm/Datacentre that the spammers site is hosted at when the software DDoS's a "spammers" site. You've just identified the folly in this idea you are so determined to believe in. Congratulations.	ninja (1671)
373551	2005-07-22 03:19:00	At what point did i say that it would not effect others who share a server with a spammers site?	personthingy (1670)
373552	2005-07-22 03:30:00	At what point did i say that it would not effect others who share a server with a spammers site?You didn't. But you also didn't (seemingly refuse to) acknowlege it as a very real problem with this crap idea of a system. If you're concerned the software could be used maliciously against sites incorrectly, that same concern should be extended to the other potentially thousands of innocent customers, and potentially millions of affected internet users who can't reach their favourite sites because a group of douchebags are trying to hose some fly by night spammers website. Just think about it for a second. www.millerton.co.nz - your site, appears to be hosted at isx.registerdirect.net.nz. If I set up a site on their server and publish it via spam, your OWN machine will be DDoSing your OWN web server. Surely you'd be pissed off about your site being down, your customers would be pissed off that they couldn't access your website, etc etc. The effects are much much much wider than just giving a spammer a bad day. He'll move, meanwhile the DDoS will continue to pummel away at the original server for hours even days after the spammer has set up elsewhere.	ninja (1671)
373553	2005-07-22 03:51:00	Well Ninja, I feel honoured that you've looked that far as to see who my host is.... Yes i am aware how it works, but i feel that the fly by night or any other spammer might not be welcome to host its site anywhere else if this sort of thing were to become common place, and it would be worth some disruption... that's were our opinions differ	personthingy (1670)
373554	2005-07-22 03:52:00	Another complicating point to consider, how many spammers are sending the email to attract people to their own site? Not many I'd say, so who do you hit, the spammer or the spammers customer? What spammer or nefarious website is hosted on one server from one source without backupsrus ready to go. It comes with the territory, more so than normal legit businesses, that they are ready to cut their loses at one place, slip out the back and fire up the alternative the moment they hear the banging at the front door. Meanwhile the mess is left to others to sort out.	Murray P (44)
373555	2005-07-22 04:01:00	Another complicating point to consider, how many spammers are sending the email to attract people to their own site? Not many I'd say, so who do you hit, the spammer or the spammers customer? Professional spammer promoting ones own site, or private site owner paying someone else to "promote" ? In essence this is the difference between a killer and the person paying a hitman Both are of the second example are killers in my view, as both of the first example are spammers.	personthingy (1670)
373556	2005-07-22 04:01:00	The article (and every other article about it) does say that Blue Security would make an attempt to contact the site admin/host to give them fair warning before taking action against it. This is a big difference between the Blue Security effort and the Lycos one. But then you may also remember that some of the targets in the original Lycos effort responded with zombie DDoS attacks themselves - not a good look. Everybody loses. The law is a better way of dealing with spammers. Witness the number of spammers that have been convicted and the penalties - some guy got 9 years! in the US. Spam filters are getting better and better all the time.	vinref (6194)
373557	2005-07-22 04:59:00	What's the law in good old Godzone? Does it have the teeth? Does it react quickly enough to provide relief to everyday users (faster than an ISP abuse@)?	Murray P (44)
373558	2005-07-22 05:07:00	I have no idea of the law in Godzone, but a pessimistic voice in my head tells me the same people that keep Telecom's monopoly on net access are the same ones that formulate policy and regulations and consult on internet law. So nothing that benefits users. We have to depend on the Americans and Australians and those tricky Europeans. Some article I read a while back says most spammers are in the US, and that's where they like to execute people for looking askance at your dog.	vinref (6194)
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