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Thread ID: 59981	2005-07-19 02:35:00	My view exactly re muslim attitudes.	Cicero (40)	PC World Chat

Post ID	Timestamp	Content	User
373365	2005-07-20 01:37:00	You must've read Noam Chomsky's "Hegemony or Survival"? Metla "Because they killed everyone" Really - that is what made America what it is today? I don't think Metla reads anything that does not have pictures by the amount of logic displayed at times.	Safari (3993)
373366	2005-07-20 01:52:00	What a shame this is degenerating into personal attacks. And after everyone behaved themselves so nicely in the Maori (pressf1.co.nz) thread a while back. :annoyed:	Peterj116 (6762)
373367	2005-07-20 02:06:00	Agh, some people just have no idea about English/British history. For a start, they never "invaded" anyone.... if you think invaded, then think the Nords, the Romans, the Spanish, the Mongolians and more recently the Germans and Japanese. England was always a victim of invaders, from the North, East and South. What England did was colonise, which ain't nearly as bad as outright pillage, plunder and massacre. Sure, England is guilty in her past of brutally trying to assimilate other nations, but she always preserved their cultures, and in fact valued them. Think about it... if England invaded any foreign nation, where is the legacy of it today... I mean what other territory in the world apart from the British Isles is called England? (ok, apart from the Falklands et al which were basically devoid of any national status at their time). Give the English a break - they weren't anywhere near as bad as their contemporarys! Invaded/colonised, all the same,Wars were fought,land taken and raped, entire groups of people wiped out...And England had no right to be doing what they were doing,Sure as hell would't get away with it now.	Metla (12)
373368	2005-07-20 02:13:00	Metla "Because they killed everyone" Really - that is what made America what it is today? I don't think Metla reads anything that does not have pictures by the amount of logic displayed at times. You think they would have had access to all the resources they took without wiping out the inhabitents? You think without those resources they would have built themselves into a superpower with the economy to match? Well? Feel free to tell me your views, though now you have used the spelling angle and the picture book one things are looking pretty grim.	Metla (12)
373369	2005-07-20 02:20:00	Invaded/colonised, all the same,Wars were fought,land taken and raped, entire groups of people wiped out...And England had no right to be doing what they were doing,Sure as hell would't get away with it now. I'm not knocking ya Metz... but there is a significant diffs: invade (dictionary.reference.com) colonise (dictionary.reference.com) As mentioned, the English were pretty brutal, but somewhat less so than other nations throughout history.	Greg (193)
373370	2005-07-20 02:26:00	Right Peter. This thread was originally about an article referenced by Cicero linking multicuturalism, Islamism, and the London bombing. I then refered to Enoch Powell and his warnings of trouble from uncontrolled immigration, and also said that the England of my birth was no more; no flag waving on my part, no regrets expressed, just a plain neutral statement of 'fact'. Then all hell breaks loose, and the thread took off tangentially with diatribes against England and it's colonial past, quite unrelated to the original direction. Poor Veale, doesn't like Shakespeare, never did anything for him, well that's ok, I wont hold that against him, but the St Crispin Day Speech did do quite a lot for Laurence Olivier in the film Henry V. Of course it was cut and paste, don't expect me to laboriously one finger type it all out do you Veale? So what about this bit of flag waver for England instead then? "'Hitler knows that he will have to break us in this island or lose the war. If we can stand up to him, all Europe may be free and the life of the world may move forward into broad, sunlit uplands. But if we fail, the whole world, including the Unites States, including all that we have known and cared for, will sink into the abyss of a new Dark Age, made more sinister, and perhaps more protracted, by the lights of perverted science. Let us therefore brace ourselves to our duties, and so bear ourselves that, if the British Empire and its Commonwealth last for a thousand years, men will say, "This was their finest hour."' (Churchill in his speech on June 18, 1940)" Sad, the British Empire had gone within 10 years :) Time for another tune Land of Hope and Glory (mfile.akamai.com) :)	Terry Porritt (14)
373371	2005-07-20 02:29:00	And the natives of these coutries were grateful or even awere of the fact? The English had certain rules they made themselves which governed how they "colonised" a country,all of which were repeatedly ignored. What was importent was assuming control,supressing the natives any way required (read kill) and then preparing for the wave of immegrants....which were the real invading force. The end result was the same, Taking land they had no right to and killing scores of people who untill the British arrived were minding their own business (and I dont think it matters if that means pacifists eating fruit or warriors eating each other) Though I think its hilarious that Cook was eaten by the people of Fiji.... Being sucked it by how the invaders term their own actions is as bad as thinking Bush's attack on Irag was a liberation movement.....just because thats how he wants people to view it.	Metla (12)
373372	2005-07-20 02:36:00	What England did was colonise, which ain't nearly as bad as outright pillage, plunder and massacre. Sure, England is guilty in her past of brutally trying to assimilate other nations, but she always preserved their cultures, and in fact valued them. Think about it... if England invaded any foreign nation, where is the legacy of it today... I mean what other territory in the world apart from the British Isles is called England? (ok, apart from the Falklands et al which were basically devoid of any national status at their time). Agreed. The legacy? The English legal, commercial, and political systems which endure in many former colonies to this day. Including the United States. But enough of that. White folk are no better or worse than any other humans. Conflict between groups of people is age old, way back into pre-history. There is not an inhabited place on this planet where some violence hasn't taken place. Folk argue. Jealousies and envy develop. Or just plain hunger. Lets go into the next valley cos there's no food left here - except the neighbours don't want us. What we overlook is that man is a social animal. We dominate this planet because of two things - our large brains, and co-operation. So despite the constant "the sky is falling" from the media, we all basically get along. That is how we have a society. If it were otherwise, we'd not have governments, laws, factories, farms etc. Instead we'd be scrabbling around individually defending territory and worrying about the next meal.	Winston001 (3612)
373373	2005-07-20 02:43:00	Hey people, can we please discuss these contentious issues without any personal abuse please. Thanking you for your co-operation..	Biggles (121)
373374	2005-07-20 02:48:00	Winston can always be relied upon to bring sanity and commonsense into these discussions, well done. Just ponder on these generalised events, not in any particular time order, just off the top of my head: Japan invades China. China invades Tibet. France invades Europe. Germany invades Europe and Russia. France colonises Pacific. Germany colonises Africa. Spain colonises Americas. Mongols invade India. Arabs colonise Africa and carry out slave trade. ...and so on ad-infinitum... The list is endless in extent and time.	Terry Porritt (14)
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