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Thread ID: 59981	2005-07-19 02:35:00	My view exactly re muslim attitudes.	Cicero (40)	PC World Chat

Post ID	Timestamp	Content	User
373345	2005-07-19 06:09:00	"....The England of your birth is a fantasy, Britan has a long and bloody history not only outside its borders but within....." How on earth can Britains' bloody history lead you to the conclusion that the England of my birth is a fantasy??? Well which England? The original one with its few native tribes? How long did that last? England has been continually invaded by a whole bunch of different people, a lot of who ended up staying and integrating. So whats an Englishman? Pretty mixed race sort of person before we even get to the later centuries. And England has had a bit of a history of turning around and invading others too and then demanding they run the place just like England. Usually meaning they took whatever they liked, the natives lived in poverty and were treated like dirt. My grandmother was "english". She was also racist and a snob. She was very proud of her French ancestery but quite horrified when my father went and married some "foreign" woman. Its nothing to do with race, religion or culture. Humans are no different from territorial, hostile to others, selfish chimps. Eliminate the religion, colour, borders, and there'd still be something to fight about. How long your toes are. What colour you paint your house.	pctek (84)
373346	2005-07-19 06:36:00	Rose coloured glasses. Lets all hear it for the old country,English was proper,Men were gentlemen, Education garenteed a glorious future (whoa,guess that was a stuff up),and there was no drinking culture. And of course, It was white. I have to say it,no matter whats going on right now the white race are the most arrogant and evil that have ever raped the earth,and England's tradition stand at the peak of that movement. And yeah, Im 100 percent white, and shamed by the thousand years of tyranny, and now by those that think its something to be proud of.	Metla (12)
373347	2005-07-19 06:49:00	Poor Metla, must lie awake at night thinking about the shame. Each post sounds more ridiculous than the last, can't wait for the next one.	Safari (3993)
373348	2005-07-19 06:56:00	I don't quite see the relevance of your post, pctek, but I take your point about the English quote; "turning around and invading others too and then demanding they run the place just like England. Usually meaning they took whatever they liked, the natives lived in poverty and were treated like dirt." This should be remembered when people complain about Maori and their justifiable grievences. The England of my birth was the England during the Depression, when 'oop' north unemployment was horrific, and people grubbed around slag heaps looking for bits of coal. Down in Birmingham it was much better and my dad was never unemployed. Then we had the war to fight fascism, endured bombing, but nothing like London did. During the war the city corporation buses always ran, even considering all the blokes in the forces. About every 15 minutes into Brum. Magically somehow after the war when all the blokes came back, and we had large numbers of Italian POWs (who seemed happy to stay) helping to build houses, there was this tremendous shortage of bus drivers, and so that gave the government of the day an excuse to import vast numbers of West Indians, not counting the 600 million Indian sub continent Indians who at that time were virtually entitled to come and live in UK, until the loophole was closed. England did not exist of course before the "Angles" arrived. The Romans called the island Britania, I can't remember what the Celts called their land. There were more than just a handfull of tribes with few people. Going way back the population had always been substantial, as witness the ability to organise mass labour to build such immense structures as Maiden Castle earthworks when they only had wooden spades and deer antler picks. After 1066, there was no further armed invasion, though England opened its doors to refugees like the Hugenots. The real invasion of England started from about 1948 onwards :)	Terry Porritt (14)
373349	2005-07-19 07:12:00	Rose coloured glasses . Lets all hear it for the old country,English was proper,Men were gentlemen, Education guaranteed a glorious future (whoa,guess that was a stuff up),and there was no drinking culture . And of course, It was white . I have to say it,no matter whats going on right now the white race are the most arrogant and evil that have ever raped the earth,and England's tradition stand at the peak of that movement . And yeah, I'm 100 percent white, and shamed by the thousand years of tyranny, and now by those that think its something to be proud of . My dear Metla,you do seem to have a thing about the English,which seems strange after they let you win at rugger . Will let things go your way,so as to keep that chip firmly on the shoulder .	Cicero (40)
373350	2005-07-19 07:20:00	Thanks Cicero - I enjoyed that article . I loved the bit where he counter-pointed an Islamic journalist defending "feisty" moslems, against a dead journalist in one of the Tube trains . His point, which I imagine was Enoch Powell's originally - isn't that multiple cultures are a bad thing per se . Rather it is the overweaning liberal tolerance for offensive views and activities which allows a society to be undermined . The phrase "when in Rome" no longer has any meaning . In our attempts to be fairminded and accepting of other cultures, we excuse or pretend not to see unacceptable human behaviour . The problem is quite where you draw the line . Wanting to dress as an Islamic woman seems fairly harmless and shouldn't portend the end of Western civilisation . Against that a Western woman has no such choice in an Islamic country but doesn't that simply underline the relative freedoms we enjoy . We need to extend those freedoms to our people of whatever ethnicity . One caveat remains - never become so liberal as to accept what is plainly wrong . Eg . a few years ago it was accepted that Polynesian men beat their wives and children . Social workers and police had to shrug . That was wrong and is now recognised . Its nothing to do with race, religion or culture . Humans are no different from territorial, hostile to others, selfish chimps . Eliminate the religion, colour, borders, and there'd still be something to fight about . How long your toes are . What colour you paint your house . Agreed .	Winston001 (3612)
373351	2005-07-19 07:58:00	Poor Metla, must lie awake at night thinking about the shame. Each post sounds more ridiculous than the last, can't wait for the next one. Is in not possible to have a point in your post? even a weak one would do, anything at all? Oh,wait, you already used the spelling angle, Guess you have nothing after all.	Metla (12)
373352	2005-07-19 08:07:00	I have to say it,no matter whats going on right now the white race are the most arrogant and evil that have ever raped the earth,and England's tradition stand at the peak of that movement. Geez thats a bit much. White black or purple is also irrelevant. HAve a watch of the History channel on Sky sometime, they had a bunch of programs on lovely people like Genghis Khan, Attila the Hun etc etc. I have concluded ages ago the entire history of the world consists of various groups of people being complete vicious nasty *&&^^%$'s to other groups of people. Can't see anything new except the methods and weapons being used. Regardless of where they came from, believed in, currebntly lived or what they wore. Its all an excuse. White doesn't have any monopoly.	pctek (84)
373353	2005-07-19 08:20:00	Rose coloured glasses. Lets all hear it for the old country,English was proper,Men were gentlemen, Education garenteed a glorious future (whoa,guess that was a stuff up),and there was no drinking culture. etc etc... Strange, I haven't seen any specific flag waving for the Old Country or English Gentlemen anywhere in this thread. So this is just for Metla: This day is called the feast of Crispian: He that outlives this day, and comes safe home, Will stand a tip-toe when the day is named, And rouse him at the name of Crispian. He that shall live this day, and see old age, Will yearly on the vigil feast his neighbours, And say 'To-morrow is Saint Crispian:' Then will he strip his sleeve and show his scars. And say 'These wounds I had on Crispin's day.' Old men forget: yet all shall be forgot, But he'll remember with advantages What feats he did that day: then shall our names. Familiar in his mouth as household words Harry the king, Bedford and Exeter, Warwick and Talbot, Salisbury and Gloucester, Be in their flowing cups freshly remember'd. This story shall the good man teach his son; And Crispin Crispian shall ne'er go by, From this day to the ending of the world, But we in it shall be remember'd; We few, we happy few, we band of brothers; For he to-day that sheds his blood with me Shall be my brother; be he ne'er so vile, This day shall gentle his condition: And gentlemen in England now a-bed Shall think themselves accursed they were not here, And hold their manhoods cheap whiles any speaks That fought with us upon Saint Crispin's day. Crispian Day Speech, Henry V, Bill Shakespeare Now let's all cry .... God for Harry, England and St George :thumbs:	Terry Porritt (14)
373354	2005-07-19 09:03:00	Geez thats a bit much. White black or purple is also irrelevant. HAve a watch of the History channel on Sky sometime, they had a bunch of programs on lovely people like Genghis Khan, Attila the Hun etc etc. I have concluded ages ago the entire history of the world consists of various groups of people being complete vicious nasty *&&^^%$'s to other groups of people. Can't see anything new except the methods and weapons being used. Regardless of where they came from, believed in, currebntly lived or what they wore. Its all an excuse. White doesn't have any monopoly. The point was that some tend to hold up their vision of England as the pinnicle of all mankinds achevments,and compare everything they see to their imaginary place and time.	Metla (12)
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