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Thread ID: 60273	2005-07-27 09:16:00	tv3 deisel vers petrol	tweak'e (69)	PC World Chat

Post ID	Timestamp	Content	User
376053	2005-07-27 10:37:00	plod....i under stand the reason we don't get many euro deisels here is our ****ty deisel is not good for them. yeah that's right, good enough for the jap ones, but they aren't on par with a euro, I remember reading a review in a car mag about one of the merc diesels, the only difference the test driver noticed was when he was fueling it up, still managed to smoke the tyres pretty well..	plod (107)
376054	2005-07-27 10:38:00	so probably a good time to find a unemployed meth cook to start converting the bio diesel, can't wait for the police raids, surely this would be the same as growing your own tobacco for supply? :p we pay tax seperatly to the fuel (uk the tax is built into the price of the fuel) so afaik it is legal to make your own deisel. just watch out for the police raids if they mistake the lab for a meth lab tho ;) :lol:	tweak'e (69)
376055	2005-07-27 10:40:00	BMW 3litre twin turbo deisel 200+kw .......yes please ! ! !	tweak'e (69)
376056	2005-07-27 10:43:00	we pay tax seperatly to the fuel (uk the tax is built into the price of the fuel) so afaik it is legal to make your own deisel . just watch out for the police raids if they mistake the lab for a meth lab tho ;) :lol: sorry tweak'e, I was sure you were a nz resident, because I was under the illusion that out taxes were also built into the cost of fuel, Isn't that a fair whack of the cost of fuel is tax	plod (107)
376057	2005-07-27 10:43:00	That's an interesting point tweake, I suppose road user chargers would still have to be paid if home brewed diesel was used?	Terry Porritt (14)
376058	2005-07-27 10:48:00	road user charges are paid by km's driven rather than been built into the fuel. also the weight of vechile determines what road user charges you pay. 3 ton ticket costs more per km than 2 ton etc.	tweak'e (69)
376059	2005-07-27 10:55:00	road user charges are paid by km's driven rather than been built into the fuel. also the weight of vechile determines what road user charges you pay. 3 ton ticket costs more per km than 2 ton etc. sorry mistook your coments, didn't realise you were talking soley about road users only, although I don't believe the goverment would be happy about the rest of the taxes they are missing out on. But believe me, if i can find a way legal or not, to avoid paying I'm all for it.	plod (107)
376060	2005-07-27 16:23:00	The US like NZ has had a very different reaction to diesels, not necessarily good ones . Actually, with higher combustion temperatures and pressures, the stoichemetric efficiency is much higher than a gasoline engine . Compression ratios are the answer . A diesel has (usually) over 17:1 compression ratio, some over 26:1, whereas a gas engine has at most (prior to preignition and knock from uncontrolled flamefront propogation) about 7 . 5:1 to (like Volvos) 9:1 . Volvos here in the US still require premium or higher octane fuel . With higher cylinder pressures, much more heat is produced, and since an internal combustion engine is just a heat pump anyway, that converts to better use of BTU's, ergo: better economy . Then there's the fuel to consider . The higher caloric content of the fuel (releaseable heat/energy) that diesel has over gasoline (higher volitility and lower gassing pressure or vaporization) generates a better dynamic efficiency . Cetane, heptane and pentane values, if they are in the right ratio, produce better energy than octane (which is the value placed on a fuel's value to NOT BURN uncontrollably!) for gasoline . The viscosity, although not the only consideration for a useful fuel, usually indicates higher calories per gallon than a lighter, less-dense liquid . It's no wonder that maritime vessels use the standard fuel called NSFO, or Naval Standard Fuel Oil, which is very thick (viscosity) and contains huge amounts of energy thru it's caloric content . Ultimately, the death of diesel engines and blackening the whole diesel arena and value of them here in the US was the noise (higher cylinder pressures make more noise), the black smoke (actually a very bio-digestable heavy carbonous and long-moleculed emission that is consummed by the same bacteria that eats the sloughed-off rubber from the tires on vehicles, and) is actually not hazardous as the ill-informed public believes . But they can see the smoke, therefor they believe it is killing them . . they cannot see the nitrous oxides or the lighter elements from gasoline engines, so they must be doing good in controlling smog . Maintenance is another consideration . With small lube oil resevoirs on most passenger cars with diesel engines, the problem is contamination of the oil reserve at a very high rate . Oil changes are very necessary at 3,000 miles or lubrication quality suffers as does the engine . Larger engines have gallons and gallons of oil capacity, verses just quarts of oil capacity in a passenger vehicle . But . . . the best part of the diesel controversy, and there should only be educated consumer evaluations here, is the fact that the "tune-up" as in replacing sparkplugs, ignition devices as in distributors, coils, primary and secondary wiring etc, do not exist on a diesel . Emission control devices are less evident, as there is no Air Injection Reaction (A . I . R . ) pumps and catalytic convertors or oxygen sensors . Quality of fuel is another concern . California mandated a lower parafin-base to diesel fuel in the late 1990's and had to purchase millions of dollars in repairs to diesel engines damaged and fuel injection pumps and injectors destroyed because the parafin is the primary lubricant in the fuel and it is actually the calorie value of the fuel anyway . Using kerosene has reduced the smoke and sulphur exhaust in state and city-owned large busses and public transportation vehicles, at the expense of the longevity of the engines . It is not uncommon for a diesel engine to run over 2 million miles before replacement is mandated if oil changes and good fuel quality is considered . If one "cheaps out" and refuses to perform these services, then they just cuss at the "damned diesel" engine that they bought and will never buy another one . The like to poison the water too in their small circle of friends . The word gets out, and albeit the word is flawed, it makes the general public run away from diesels . So, one has to ask oneself: Why do trucking companies use diesels anyway? The cost-to-power ratio . Diesels get better use of the fuel that gasoline engines can not get . The heat values are the key element . Even when the fuel costs more, and it shouldn't because it is less-refined than gasoline and cost less to produce, BTU's-per-mile make the bean counters smile . As a sidebar here, there is a rush to production to increase the alcohol content of US fuels for varied and shortsighted reasons that are mostly political or as we call here in the US, "pork barrel legislation" based reasons . Methanol is the product of choice . (The reasons?) Try farmers growing corn for fuel; senators from corn-producing states with their "clients" or the electorate needing federal subsidies anyway, and the current tree-hugging ecologists forcefeeding the blue sky values over the applicability and soundness of false science and greenhouse "sky is falling" reactionism . Then there's the "just do something" anti-logic of the general public . Methanol tainted fuels are being outed now, as they use about 28% more energy to produce than they generate . Mileage suffers, more fuel is used and it doesn't really help petrochemical oil savings at all . For the past 40 years I have been a certified diesel mechanic in this state (California) and quite frankly, am very augered at the misconceptions that surround diesel engines . :groan: My screen names on other sites are "Dieseldoc46@ . . . " and various permutations thereof . I wear that badge proudly, just ask!	SurferJoe46 (51)
376061	2005-07-27 21:55:00	Partner has a 2l diesel. While it has gone up it still works out cheaper to run than my petrol car, which is itself fairly economical for an old car.	pctek (84)
376062	2005-07-27 22:44:00	Well I have a 96 Holden Astra diesel hatchback, and when i first got it, my fuel bills were halved overnight, I do get a little bit of smoke when starting if there is a frost(or snow) or if the car has been sitting for a couple of days without being used, but other than that it is completely smoke free, The only problem i have is at service stations where the attendants often grab the 91 octane hose, even though there is a sticker on the petrol flap saying diesel As for bio diesel, from what i have read, it is what Rudolph Diesel designed the original diesel cars to run on, but it is a shade dearer to produce, i think in the states there are actual stations that sell it mixed at 10% bio to 90% standard diesel There was a really good article on one of the news sites a while back, If I find it i'll post it Cheers	Morgenmuffel (187)
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