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Thread ID: 60416	2005-08-01 03:55:00	gst+tax	lance4k (4644)	PC World Chat

Post ID	Timestamp	Content	User
377225	2005-08-01 03:55:00	can sum1 tell me how much it would cost for a bookeeper or account to keep my financial record, pay my gst and tax?	lance4k (4644)
377226	2005-08-01 04:02:00	For $100 I will collect all your data and go see an accountant and get you a free quote. Please note if you want to save my $100 fee you could bypass me and go directly to an accountant and get a free quote.	Rob99 (151)
377227	2005-08-01 04:38:00	Seriously lance4K, only the accountant could tell you. We don't know and you don't mention the number of employees, annual transaction numbers or any other details that would make up the bulk of the work that the accountant would need to do. Or the nature of your records and the way they are maintained. But the answer would be somewhere between $1,000 and $1,000,000 probably.	godfather (25)
377228	2005-08-01 04:54:00	Do it yourself. I do our books, GST etc. End of the year I fire off our Excel spreadsheets to the accountant to do the nasty calculation I don't want to do and P+L statement, depreciation and fills out the IRD forms and she charges us $140 a year. Its not hard.	pctek (84)
377229	2005-08-01 05:18:00	Sometimes I wonder how some people copy in business. Accounting calculations really ain't hard to do. IRD website has everything and anything you need to know about filing returns, the forms are crystal clear, e.g. transfer/copy from box 3A, Add to 5. How hard is that...? Personally I'd just get a 7th form/tertiery school kid to do it for cheap... The only difference between them and a proper 'accountant' is probably the qualification, which after 20/30 odd years, I think doesn't count anymore. Edit: 'School kid' assuming he/she/it is decent, i.e. pass their exams 70%+	techie (7177)
377230	2005-08-01 07:13:00	A school kid huh. I don't think so, I like to be able to depend on my accountant getting it right, And yes I do check. And there is a bit more than "transfer/copy from box 3A, Add to 5" Depreciation, profit and loss, asset register and the lovely ACC calculations.	pctek (84)
377231	2005-08-01 08:11:00	... don't tell me you don't know how to do a profit and loss statement... Even my little brother has perfected it. As for depreciation, it's slightly touched upon in the Maths curriculum at junior level already. Real accountants make real financial decisions; they interpret the money statements, etc. and turn those into an opinion that assists to steer business towards a profit making situation. As for what we've discussed -they are just book keepers. Besides, the $140 you pay per year is probably only one or two hours worth of work. She probably already has a spreadsheet set up so that you just type in the figures and everything else is done automatically [the good old days when I used to be 'accused' of cheating my accounting homework]	techie (7177)
377232	2005-08-01 10:20:00	Sometimes I wonder how some people copy in business. Accounting calculations really ain't hard to do. IRD website has everything and anything you need to know about filing returns, the forms are crystal clear, e.g. transfer/copy from box 3A, Add to 5. How hard is that...? Personally I'd just get a 7th form/tertiery school kid to do it for cheap... The only difference between them and a proper 'accountant' is probably the qualification, which after 20/30 odd years, I think doesn't count anymore. Edit: 'School kid' assuming he/she/it is decent, i.e. pass their exams 70%+ pctek has already touched on this but I wouldn't recommend anyone use a school kid to do their accounts and / or tax returns. Book-keepers are good for keeping your books in order, and a good book-keeper should be able to complete the GST returns and prepare accounts up to the 'Trial Balance' stage. I wouldn't recommend a book-keeper to do the annual tax returns. An accountant or a tax agent (not necessarily the same thing) should be sufficiently qualified / experienced to finish off the accounts and prepare an annual income tax return for you and your business (again, not necessarily the same thing). An accountant or tax agent could do the books and GST, but you would be paying through the nose for what is essentially clerical work. However, where you have 'tricky' transactions then you should seek professional advice before lodging your tax / GST return (e.g. property or trust transactions etc.). Regarding the IRD - here in NZ we have a 'self assessment' system. You assess how much tax / GST you think you owe and that is what you pay. Which when you think about it, is a pretty lenient system. But if you get it wrong then the penalties and repercussions can be horrendous. So there is a good 'incentive' to get it right. If you try to talk to someone at the IRD, then remember this : "they don't speak English and you don't speak tax". So you will often end up talking at cross-purposes. This is where a tax agent comes in handy - they are like an interpreter and are also a 'filter' between you and the IRD. The IRD must contact the tax agent before contacting you. So back to the original question of how much? It depends and Winston was correct - it could be any value depending on a variety of factors. More info perhaps? A	andrew93 (249)
377233	2005-08-01 10:30:00	A school kid huh. I don't think so, I like to be able to depend on my accountant getting it right, And yes I do check. And there is a bit more than "transfer/copy from box 3A, Add to 5" Depreciation, profit and loss, asset register and the lovely ACC calculations. Agreed. What a lot of people overlook is that there is a de facto insurance in having a qualified accountant complete and file your accounts with IRD. The tax department don't look too closely at businesses with professional advisors because they know the accountant has to obey the law. Otherwise he or she is out of a career. However there is no reason why many people can't do their own monthly accounts and 2 monthly GST returns. In fact they should in order to keep an eye on the business. Their accountant can still prepare the annual accounts and tax returns. Go and ask an accountant. I'd suggest having them do the first couple of returns and then tackle the GST yourself. Its quite easy. :thumbs:	Winston001 (3612)
377234	2005-08-01 11:05:00	. . . don't tell me you don't know how to do a profit and loss statement . . . Even my little brother has perfected it . As for depreciation, it's slightly touched upon in the Maths curriculum at junior level already . Real accountants make real financial decisions; Besides, the $140 you pay per year is probably only one or two hours worth of work . She probably already has a spreadsheet set up so that you just type in the figures and everything else is done automatically [the good old days when I used to be 'accused' of cheating my accounting homework] Yes thank you I can do it . However I loathe it . Absolutely . Can't stand the stuff . As exciting as watching paint dry . If I couldn't do it, how do you think I check her work? And yes $140 is 2 hours work, so what, I think its worth having her do all this immensely boring stuff . And actually I have my own spreadsheet set up . And she is a qualified accountant and works for TVNZ, the only reason she bothers with our accounts now is we have known her for years . Often her fee is taken in work exchanged . So we are both happy . The original post was about accountants doing the lot . That really is unnecessary . At least in a small business - large ones are another thing . . However I like her to do the final stuff and I do the daily, weekly, monthly stuff . Which is bad enough . . .	pctek (84)
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