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Thread ID: 60834	2005-08-14 11:47:00	Stingray Firewall	zqwerty (97)	PC World Chat

Post ID	Timestamp	Content	User
381068	2006-02-10 05:00:00	go back a page you've forgotten allready. its allready proven that AV/AS is not reliable and dosn't alwasy work, even when fully updated. So what you are saying is to do away with your anti virus and anti spyware programs and just ust a software firewall? They don't work anyway, right? I am sorry, my friend, most of the world will tend to disagree with your "Wonder Pill" solution. but thats not HOME users ! its still a minor issue. nothing a software firewall can't handle and a modem reboot can't fix. very few home users have static ip's over here. My point is, if a company who spends vast amounts of resources and funds to research and protect their remote users, including home users, and we can afford this solution, why should we re-invent the wheel? Oviously, they have spent the time, money and research to see what works and what DOESN'T? Again all you have is a product that is only going to stop 5% of the sicurity issues present today. malware infections account for the majority of the repairs done to home pc's, external firewalls cannot stop it in any way. your asking people to BUY a product which cannot stop 95% of sicurity issues. even IF you conclude that software firewalls can't handle certain attacks, can get turned off etc, its still better to stop 95% than the measly 5% an external firewall is going to do. now if they are runing external modem (which you need before you can use stingray) they will have an external firewall (even if its not as good as stingray...lets say only protects 4%) then the combo of software firewall + the existing hardware firewall will give them 99% protection. and you want people to drop a 99% solution to have a solution that only protects 5%....... ARE YOU NUTS ! ! ! for humble joe bloggs a measly 95% software firewall solution is still better than the 5% solution stingray offers. no matter how good you think stingray is its still a product that has no real value for home users other than sucking in gullible people who mistakenly think it will protect them. You keep on harping on the fact that 95 - 99% of attacks and infections can be stopped by a software firewall solution and a hardware solution only stops 5%, remember the downfall of software solutions. If it really worked as you say, 95% - 99% of all attacks in cyberspace is prevented. Last I looked, we still have a very BIG problem out there. Plus, having a software firewall will continue to bring computer users to techs for repair. This, my friend, is the cash cow. Enundate them with technical jargon then convince them that their system has to be reconfigured, easy money huh? I am sorry, I am in the firm belief that users should not be allowed to tinker with security matters because their are no such things as computer error, only human error and THIS COSTS MONEY. Lastly, how do you know that Stingray does not stop malware, have you tested it or is this a preconceived remark? As I mentioned, Stingray does not work like other hardware solutions and that is why I find it so interesting, ESPECIALLY FOR THE HOME USER. :cool: Terry, Stingray does work with LIVE365 - good choice of radio stations by the way. :thumbs:	Julie (8718)
381069	2006-02-10 05:07:00	terry, most firewalls you can 'hole' to allow applications through. trouble is that can mean you loose part of your sicurity. good software firewalls however can do it PER PROGRAM (ie hole it for that program only). foxy you know me too well LOL ;) but suggesting MAC's ! ! ! ....oooo...you'll keep ! actually with some infections now being cross platform macs are becoming more vunerable. fortunatly now where near as bad as windows. <goes to find a foxyMX tracker>	tweak'e (69)
381070	2006-02-10 05:27:00	So what you are saying is to do away with your anti virus and anti spyware programs and just ust a software firewall? They don't work anyway, right? I am sorry, my friend, most of the world will tend to disagree with your "Wonder Pill" solution.no i did not say they didn't work, i said they are proven not to be reliable. errr.....your the one promoteing a "wonder pill" here. You keep on harping on the fact that 95 - 99% of attacks and infections can be stopped by a software firewall solution and a hardware solution only stops 5%, remember the downfall of software solutions.i do know the downfalls of software firewalls hence why its only 95% If it really worked as you say, 95% - 99% of all attacks in cyberspace is prevented. IF everyone did use them then yes it would. the problem is it takes users years to catch on to the idea exspecially with IT pro's dumbing users sicurity down to for their own personal gain Last I looked, we still have a very BIG problem out there. Plus, having a software firewall will continue to bring computer users to techs for repair. its not the firewall that brings the techs in, its the infection. without the firewall the infection would remain hidden. promoteing hiding an infection instead of fixing it is just plain sick This, my friend, is the cash cow. Enundate them with technical jargon then convince them that their system has to be reconfigured, easy money huh? I am sorry, I am in the firm belief that users should not be allowed to tinker with security matters because their are no such things as computer error, only human error and THIS COSTS MONEY. its their pc and they will do what they want with it wether you like it or not Lastly, how do you know that Stingray does not stop malware, have you tested it or is this a preconceived remark? As I mentioned, Stingray does not work like other hardware solutions and that is why I find it so interesting, ESPECIALLY FOR THE HOME USER. :cool: simple.......can stingray stop that keyboard driver from sucking up my mega $$ bandwidth ? no of course not, how can software/hardware tell which program is bad? none can, only HUMANS can do that and you are so trying so hard to take the human part out of it. its VERY hard for a remote device to tell what program sent the data exspecially when one program is useing another to do the sending. IF you can make something that can do it then please sell it to all the ISP's and users will NEVER need a firewall. Terry, Stingray does work with LIVE365 - good choice of radio stations by the way. :thumbs: sounds good :)	tweak'e (69)
381071	2006-02-10 05:39:00	I am sorry, I am in the firm belief that users should not be allowed to tinker with security matters because their are no such things as computer error, only human error and THIS COSTS MONEY. Lastly, how do you know that Stingray does not stop malware, have you tested it or is this a preconceived remark? Dare I get involved in this discussion? :p I have a question about the Stingray and how it is aimed at home users. File sharing, whether passing things between friends on MSN or via other means is very common. I rather doubt any home situation where there are teenages present, would not be using this at some stage. Reading the FAQ on the Stingray website it advises that you must put the device into bypass mode if you wish to share files. They also kindly remind you to turn it back on again once finished. Does this not then open up the users computer to all sorts of risks while it is in bypass mode? www.stingrayinc.com To be fair, a software based firewall can also be compromised by the user who instead of permitting the connection, merely turns off the firewall as well.	Jen (38)
381072	2006-02-10 05:41:00	....terry, most firewalls you can 'hole' to allow applications through. trouble is that can mean you loose part of your sicurity. good software firewalls however can do it PER PROGRAM (ie hole it for that program only). Yes, but Live365 dont tell you what ports a particular station uses, so if your router allowed it (which the Dynalink doesn't anyway) you would have to open all the ports in the range 4000 to 32000, which defeats the point of having a hardware firewall anyway. That's why I use Kerio software firewall. Before buying a device like Stingray, I would need a detailed explanation of how it allows something like Live365 to pass through.	Terry Porritt (14)
381073	2006-02-10 06:03:00	Dare I get involved in this discussion? :p I have a question about the Stingray and how it is aimed at home users. File sharing, whether passing things between friends on MSN or via other means is very common. I rather doubt any home situation where there are teenages present, would not be using this at some stage. Reading the FAQ on the Stingray website it advises that you must put the device into bypass mode if you wish to share files. They also kindly remind you to turn it back on again once finished. Does this not then open up the users computer to all sorts of risks while it is in bypass mode? www.stingrayinc.com To be fair, a software based firewall can also be compromised by the user who instead of permitting the connection, merely turns off the firewall as well. Hi Jen, welcome to the conversation. From my experience in using the Stingray, it seems that IM's through a central server such as MSN works transparently. It is when your try to make a p2p connection, and the other user has a Stingray, that you need to press the bypass button. If it is only you that has the Stingray then the bypass button is not required. If you are sending the information and the other party has a Stingray then he/she must press the bypass button for the initial negociation or handshake (this can take less than a second). After which, they can reactivate their Stingray. During the period when the Stingray is in bypass (less than a second), they also provide an anti virus and anti trojan software to prevent malware attempts. This comes free with the Stingray :)	Julie (8718)
381074	2006-02-10 06:15:00	Yes, but Live365 dont tell you what ports a particular station uses, so if your router allowed it (which the Dynalink doesn't anyway) you would have to open all the ports in the range 4000 to 32000, which defeats the point of having a hardware firewall anyway. That's why I use Kerio software firewall. Before buying a device like Stingray, I would need a detailed explanation of how it allows something like Live365 to pass through. Hi Terry, This is why I find the damn thing so interesting. Unlike conventional solutions where you need to open, close or block holes, Stingray creates its own rule sets on the fly, therefore a hole will never need to be open. To an intruder, Stingray makes your computer seem like an OFF appliance. So what it seems to be doing is creating a set of firewalling rules for the user's request and when the request is complete, which can take mere seconds, the rule set disappears! Therefore ZERO administration is required. Plus, it comes with AV and AT software....bonus. This is how it seems to work from what I read in the users guide and other articles in their 'news and article' section. ;)	Julie (8718)
381075	2006-02-10 06:39:00	no i did not say they didn't work, i said they are proven not to be reliable. errr.....your the one promoteing a "wonder pill" here. Same thing, if they are not reliable then they do not work. Hence, the only thing that does work to prevent infections and attacks and malware is Software firewalls? This is a pretty BOLD statement. i do know the downfalls of software firewalls hence why its only 95%IF everyone did use them then yes it would. the problem is it takes users years to catch on to the idea exspecially with IT pro's dumbing users sicurity down to for their own personal gain. Here is a simple fact, before the Hardware revolution, people made do with Software solutions, and guess what, it was NOT perfect then and it is not perfect NOW. This is why hardware solutions was introduced to the average user. At one point, only large corporations could afford hardware. Now, it is cost effective enough for the average joe. Why fight the obvious? Plus, I do not know of any tech.'s that enjoys fixing problems from a remote location. Hence, if they can find a solution to overcome this dilemna, I am sure that they will jump at it. Again, abviously your software firewall is NOT cutting it. its not the firewall that brings the techs in, its the infection. without the firewall the infection would remain hidden. promoteing hiding an infection instead of fixing it is just plain sick. This is where you would utilize av and as solutions, which has much SMALLER FOOTPRINTS then software firewalls. Plus, without signatures for viruses, a software firewall is intelligent enough to identify the infection, hmmmmmmmm. its their pc and they will do what they want with it wether you like it or not simple.......can stingray stop that keyboard driver from sucking up my mega $$ bandwidth ? no of course not, how can software/hardware tell which program is bad? none can, only HUMANS can do that and you are so trying so hard to take the human part out of it. its VERY hard for a remote device to tell what program sent the data exspecially when one program is useing another to do the sending. IF you can make something that can do it then please sell it to all the ISP's and users will NEVER need a firewall. sounds good :) Relying on the users to identify bad traffic is foolhardy. Get a good AV and AS and this problem will be solved. Plus, a lot less resource usage. :rolleyes:	Julie (8718)
381076	2006-02-10 06:49:00	So you work for these guys right? I mean seriously you joined when the thread was posted, all your posts have been in this thread. How could someone possibly care so much about a product to keep fighting away at it unless they had some kind of interest in it.	ninja (1671)
381077	2006-02-10 07:02:00	The blurbs and the video on the stingray site all sound good, but really the price is too high for what it does compared to a "normal" setup. I mean US$80, that's NZ$117, then there is shipping on top of that, the power pack supplied will be 110v, so there's more cash for a 230v to 110v transformer or switched mode unit. At that price I cannot see any advantage over and above a router/modem providing NAT, and a software firewall like Kerio. To boot, if you have a LAN with computers in different rooms like I have, then users will have to keep rushing to where the Stingray is to push the bypass button each time they want to let an application through, now that is not at all a practicable thing to do. :)	Terry Porritt (14)
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