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| Thread ID: 60840 | 2005-08-14 23:44:00 | Who are you gonna vote for?? (Govt Election) | rmcb (164) | PC World Chat |
| Post ID | Timestamp | Content | User | ||
| 381401 | 2005-09-08 23:42:00 | This is for all the people who talk about 'dole bludger's Unemployment is an economic tool . Ensuring that there are people out of work keeps wages from being pushed up as employers compete for labour . This helps prevent wage-price inflation . Unemployment weakens the power of labour organisations like unions . Employers have the opportunity to employ non-union labouir from the pool of unemployed . Unemployment forces the applicants to upskill and do better because there is so much competition for the position . Unemployment allows for inflated salaries . Ms Gattung would not get her golden hand out if Telecom was forced to pay higher wages for staff if they were competing for the staff . So unemployment has some good aspects to it . Economists of the Fredmanite school, which is currently dominant, don't dispute it . And if you scoff and say, "Bollocks (or something like it) how can anyone 'ensure unemployment"? Simple . Immigration . So unemplyment is here to stay or until we return to having a political and social goal of full employment, which as you can see from the above, would have its drawbacks . Those 'kept' unemployed should be given a basic allowance to keep them alive whilst looking for a job that someone is going to make sure they don't get . So don't call me a dole bludger! |
mark c (247) | ||
| 381402 | 2005-09-08 23:54:00 | That's fine, but for many people, although maybe not you, a benefit (unemployment, domestic purposes, sickness - which National will look very closely at) - is a lifestyle choice . How did we get onto that subject, anyway? |
Peterj116 (6762) | ||
| 381403 | 2005-09-09 00:27:00 | It came up some way back . My point anyway about the use of unemployment as an economic tool means that this supposedly scandalous lifestyle choice sin't such a bad thing anyway . Some people are going to be kept out of the workforce, right? Now some of those people may not spend 40 hrs a week knocking on doors but instead use their time to grow their own vegetables, make their own pickles and preserves, have a part time job, be active members of local community organisations like the local hall and the annual carnival day, pick up rubbish around town and generally make themselves useful, help out friends and neighbours and get paid in kind . That sounds pretty much like a lifestyler and I don't see that that is a bad thing . OK the ones that get the publicity and talked about are the ones who booze it up and throw their benefit away on junk food and all that carry on but I think that's a bit like the publicity of road accidents . You never here stories about the 99% of safe and uneventful journeys . Unemployment is here to stay . Get used to it . Don't dump on us as worthless bludgers . Someone's going to be out of work as long as we don't have a commitment to full employment . Cheers . :) |
mark c (247) | ||
| 381404 | 2005-09-09 01:05:00 | I'd tend to go along with Mark on this. I think use of the term 'lifestyle' is rather emotive and not backed up by real statistics. Sure we probably all know of the odd case where someone deliberately chooses to have a baby, go and live in the Wairarapa, and go on DPB. But, we have to remember that 30-40 years ago registered unemployment in NZ was a mere handful. It was said that Social welfare department, or whatever they called themselves in those days personally knew the names of all unemployed. In the 1970s, after the 1974 oil shock, when we first looked at coming to NZ, the registered unemployed was around 460. Now people have not changed all that much. Most prefer to be in work, given the chance, and a reasonable wage. In common with other western countries, there has been a big shift away from work being available for the non-academic, for those who were quite happy with manual work etc. Then we have had unemployment used as a tool as Mark says, there can be little argument against that idea, it has been documented. And to boot, there has been a considerable depression of wages for those at the 'bottom', take rest home caregivers and caregivers for the elderly generally, as an example. We have really seen the nasty side of human behaviour since 'New Right' philosophies, blame the poor for being poor, blame the sick for being sick, blame the unemployed for being unemployed. In Charles Dickens days they sent debtors to prison until they paid their debts, that sort of idea has been successfully inculcated into mainstream thinking over recent years. |
Terry Porritt (14) | ||
| 381405 | 2005-09-09 01:52:00 | What are people talking about "unemployment is here to stay" We now have the lowest rates in the OECD . I go out and see "staff wanted" plastered over heaps of shops, the newspaper has 100's of vacancies every week, (in chch anyway) . They can't get staff for agriculture, for factory work, for industry . Certianly unemployment is now a lifestyle choice, to say otherwise is merely denial . Why should I pay to give someone else a lifestyle that I would like? This is a pathetic excuse for not looking for work . certinaly it held water in the 80's and into the 90's, but anyone who wants work can find it now, so many times I hear of people who say they would hire staff if they could find them and they have given up looking . I would say that if you can't find a job then either you are in teh wrong place or unemployable . Mind you despite these words I do admit jobs under $12 an hour are very low paid, and if so many are at the low rate I would consider unemployment a valid alternative to economic slavery |
netchicken (4843) | ||
| 381406 | 2005-09-09 02:22:00 | We may well have the lowest rate of unemployment in the OECD, I haven't checked, but what I have checked is that at June 2005, there were 76,200 unemployed: "OFFICIAL NUMBER OF UNEMPLOYED IN NZ June 2005 seasonally adjusted 76,200 people" www.jobsletter.org.nz Compare this with the ~460 I mentioned previously. I just don't 'believe' all those, or even a substantial percentage of them have chosen to be unemployed as a lifestyle. A proportion or even a sizeable number may be unemployable 3rd world refugees. Another proportion may be from rural areas where "New Right" policies shut down those areas. Yet more would work if work was available in their areas, and at an appropriate 'manual labour' skill level. Many of the vacancies I've seen in the newspaper call for skill levels probably beyond that possessed by the bulk of the unemployed. I don't think there is any easy answer, |
Terry Porritt (14) | ||
| 381407 | 2005-09-09 02:59:00 | Unemployment isn't much of a lifestyle. I know a few people who were on the unemployment benifit, and they required strict budgeting just to get by from day to day. There is no way anyone can afford to run a car on the benifit these days - most unemployed people can't even afford to eat properly after spending almost all their benifit on rent. | Greven (91) | ||
| 381408 | 2005-09-09 03:06:00 | The actual number of unemployed is much greater . Many of those undergoing "training" are unemployed . The training is for occupations in which they have no chance of finding jobs . (If they are very good, they might get jobs tutoring in a training organistion . ;)) But while they are "training", they are not unemployed . When a course finishes, they can train in something else . . . Many school pupils are unemployed . They are forced by law to remain in school . They provide the fodder for the "academy" sections of some secondary schools, where they can study sport . It keeps them from disrupting the education of those who want to learn . |
Graham L (2) | ||
| 381409 | 2005-09-09 03:11:00 | You got a point . . . Skilled . . . . SECTORS WITH A RISE IN EMPLOYMENT IN LAST YEAR Wholesale & Retail Trade, Education, Business & Financial Services, Other Services . Unskilled . . . . SECTORS WITH A DROP IN EMPLOYMENT IN LAST YEAR Agriculture, Forestry & Fishing, Manufacturing, Construction, Transport, Storage & Communication, Health & Community Services . I had read we would go through a sociological change over the next decade where manual work will decline with the increase in automation . I can see it personally . When I was a student I worked in a factory stacking boxes on pallets, there were up to 12 people working shift work in that position . Now there are none, just 3 machines . Really, like the industrial revolution, we may have to wait for this generation to die off before change will happen . |
netchicken (4843) | ||
| 381410 | 2005-09-09 03:28:00 | I think you are right Netchicken, but it has to be realised that no matter how much the general knowledge level and technology increases, the percentage of the population who will never be capable of doing more than simple repetitive manual tasks stays the same. I like Grahams comments about training :) Whenever there is a TV clip about apprenticeships/training, then invariably there is a shot of a centre lathe with metal being turned. What a joke, train to be an unemployed semi-skilled centre lathe turner. There could well be a job for a turner in China though :) |
Terry Porritt (14) | ||
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