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Thread ID: 61161	2005-08-26 22:02:00	Days of cheep oil is over	ERR (8231)	PC World Chat

Post ID	Timestamp	Content	User
383962	2005-08-28 17:00:00	The Japanese now make better cars than the Americans . Even the Americans think so - have a look at the JD Power surveys . Japanese make international cars that are so good, the same models are sold the world over . Ditto with most electronics . (Laughing up sleeve here while climbing onto soapbox) . . . The Japanese companies are just better at financing the packages and marketing slick, glossy advertisements to woo impressable DINKS (dual-incomes-no-kids) couples and late night television personalities that JD Powers says are such a good fodder . $0-down and 'CATCH-ME-IF-YOU-CAN" financing is the real reason why they are so popular . Here in the US we have rental/lease companies that hold their cars/SUV's and light trucks for just so long before they "retire" them as they start to pass into the beancounters perceptions for negative value . These companies (Hertz/Avis/Rent-A-Wreck/Alliance/ and a slew of others publish lists of the vehicles they would like to spin off to the general public under the guise of "gently-used, creampuff cars that would like a new owner" . So what? Look at the list . . . . . . . . . . . . . I see Hondas . . . . Toyotas, Subarus, Mazdas, and Kias and Daiwas that have less than 20,000 miles on them . . . . barely outta the break-in mileage . Why? Because the counters of beans realize that these cars are now costing more to keep running than they can generate in revenue . "Way down the list are most US cars with considerably higher mileage numbers on them . . . . . Oh, sure, there is an occasional pseudo-US car from Japan or Korea with a GM or FORD decal on it masquerading as a real car . . but they don't fool anybody but the "EXPERTS" at JD Powers . Good ol' JD is just interested in keeping the publishers happy by selling magazines . . . they are all prostituted to the ideal that "everyone trades or sells their cars every 18 months anyway" attitude, banking that the general public has a short memory . They also touted and pimped the Hyundai as the most highly technical and refreshing export from foreign shores . . . . uh huh . Ya see . . . a PERSON is smart enough to see this, PEOPLE are dumb and miss the mark all the time . . . . something about lemmings I think . . . . . . . FORD trucks are in this type of marketing ploy too . They advertise as the "Most popular" trucks in the US . The real reason for their market percentage is the easy financing and perceived service after sales . The lists in the papers are full to the max of listings for "foreign" cars . . . Toyotas, Nissans, Mazdas, Mitsubishis, Accords, but the lists for the Detroit iron are much . . . much shorter . There is also the "CLASSICS" list that most papers carry for those interested in long term investmants . . . the list includes such cars as "1968 PLYMOUTH ROADRUNNER, 383 Hi Per 4-speed, limited slip, dual quad, never raced, asking $25,000 OBO" to "1958 Chevrolet Corvette, 283 Tri-Pack Carbs, Positraction, perfect paint red/white, three tops, priced at $30,000 or trade for Cobra kitcar" to "1962 Corvair Monza-Spyder, Turbocharged, all leather, power everything, factory blue paint and less than 2,000 miles on odo, asking $60,000, principles ONLY! . . . NO DEALERS" to "1932 Cadillac Lasalle, Big whites, original engine and upholstery, fully restored to daily driver, $215,900, buyer transport" See any Toyotas there? Hondas? Hmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm . I totally discount any names of Euro cars as they are irrelevant to this story, and not in the marketplace as far as I am concerned . Ford owns most of the Euro cars at any rate, and that's just another decal swap thing . I was in the trenches with the auto business for over 38 years, and I loved to see the imports get sold . . . People with poorly-designed, badly built miserable cars would very soon need repairs . . . and that was where I came in . . . . . I will admit however, that the Toyotas needed the LEAST amount of after warrantee repairs of all the cars I worked on . The soapbox is now vacant . . . . . . . . . . step up . . . . . . . . . . Hyundai and Daiwoo are missing from the list . . . they are not cars	SurferJoe46 (51)
383963	2005-08-28 20:50:00	Are you what is described as a red neck Joe?.And there I was thinking you were a rationalist. Here in NZ we see mostly Japanese cars,the reason,they go forever and do more than 18 mpg. The classics you quote are irrelevant to this question. Her we also collect cars such as 350 Chevy's,mark2 jags etc,that is just nostalgia by a few. Yes Jap cars were not good in the early days,but tell us what is wrong with a Lexus.	Cicero (40)
383964	2005-08-28 22:45:00	I don't wear the redneck badge too well . . . but I have a serious case of the jaws about the denegration of US . . . er . . . Detroit Iron . Finger-pointing and accusing anything of being inferior had better be backed up by true life experiences, not anecdotal offerings . There are always exceptions to anyone's rule, and I am not making a case for that arguement here . This is personal and evidenced by me and what I truly believe and decry . I too have a sense of loyalty to things like any Kiwi worth his salt should too . . . but cars actually have to work well to make me defend them at all . Sales specs and charts do not make the satisfaction values of vehicles improve . Quite the opposite . . . I am very suspect of anything that's charted and annotated as "best buy" or "consumer's choice" . OK . . the classics thing was a bust . . but they do lend creedence to the arguement . Truly a Lexus is just a lot of monkey-motion . . automotively . They have an ungodly amount of valvetrain complication for me . Not that I didn't like working on them, as they needed a lot of that if inferior oils were used or not changed often enuff . High wear characteristics was the norm for them, and I did a lot of valvetrain repairs . Ya gotta remember . . . here we get about 250,000 miles/338,688 kilometers on our cars in short time . We have a vast array of freeways and even the secondary roads are large boulevards . Many people live in towns far away from their work place . Commute times are over 2 hours each way . . . and that may be at a total stop, waiting for the traffic to move . All the time the engines run, air conditioners blasting and dvd players playing . . . cell phones too (can't forget them!) . . either idling or running full-out trying to get home first, faster than the next guy or fast enuff to outrun the car-to-car shooters . We drive for everything we need . We go hundreds of miles to see a good play or boat show . We goto Palm Springs for dinner and then back to Huntington Beach to visit the old folks, and then home to La Canada or Flintridge . I personally drive over 90 miles to fish or hike or just stare at the sky away from the afterglow of the greater Los Angeles basin . It is not uncommon for me to drive to Arizona for a day, and return the next (over 1,000 miles round trip) . . . just to do it for fun . The Euro cars never had the stamina to meet the demands of US commuters . Jaguars were never good freeway fliers, nor were Citroens, Peugeots, Fiats, Triumphs, MG's, Austin Healeys, Borgwards: if one owned one of these cars, it was suggested the purchasing of a second for spare parts at least . Weekily tune-ups or head gasket failures were normal operating proceedures for these . The English cars had an appetite for rods and rod bearings too . BMW's and Mercedes Benzs et all, had a good track record for longevity and road-worthyness, but the cost of maintenance and upkeep really make them Sunday-go-to-church cars anyway . The transmissions shifting would lurch the car in ways that a car with that amount of prestige should not have . We will factor out the Ferraris and Maseratis and the Iso-Flavio-somethings, as they aren't considered trustworthy beyond the city limit signs either . I drive a few differing vehicles myself . I have a 1986 Chevrolet K-5 Blazer, with a . 040" over 350 c/i-5 . 7l . , and a Crane Performance cam . It has a THM 700 O/drive transmission, 33 x 12 . 50/15 tires, a single Quadrajet carb, A/C, p/s, cruise control, full electric options and is raised in the front for more serious off-road performance . It gets 23+ mpg (about 37 kilometers to a liter . . is that right?) on the freeways, and about 14 around town . It is big and high and it wins in an accident . It has 205,000 miles/329,845 kilometers on it . I have changed this engine twice . . . for performance sake alone, not repairs . I crunched the oil pan gasket a little too tight, and will replace it soon . . . I promise . . . I do! I also have a 2002 Chevrolet Astro Van, 4 . 3 liter v/6 engine with basically the same transmission in it as the Blazer above, albeit, electronically controlled . It unfortunately only gets 18 . 8 mpg . . . very low mileage for such a vehicle . . . but typical for the breed/year/model according to GM ratings . The sad part is that we traded to this van from a 1998 G-20 Chevrolet Van conversion (at 235,000 miles/377,410 kilometers) with Captain's chairs and almost the same engine/transmission that got 7 more miles-per-gallon, even though it was a 3/4 ton full-sized van . Go figger . This van has the full Monty in accessories . . . It has 106,500/171,039 kilometers miles on it . It has original engine/transmission, and is on it's 3rd set of front/2nd set of rear brakes . No oil leaks or coolant drips to date . I drive as my daily driver a 1989 Isuzu Amigo with a 2 . 6 liter 4/cylinder, 2 wheel drive, 5-speed manual transmissioned sweetheart . It gets gas mileage between the two vehicles above but is a lot of fun to drive . It has 276,500 miles/444,059 kilometers on it . This vehicle has had no engine or transmission work at all . It has NO oil leaks or various other vital fluids either . This is the XP version . . . supposed to be with a lot of upgrades . . . but I think the steering wheel should not be an upgrade . Since the Amigo is really a Chevrolet/Isuzu hybrid, it is really a domestic car to me . The real redneck in me is the fact that I ONLY buy General Motors vehicles by choice . Honestly, there have been some mighty impressive vehicles that were foreign-born that I liked a lot . Let me list a few: Datsun (Nissan) "Z" cars . . . . a hybrid of the M/B head and Chevy blue flame 6 cylinder engine . Fantastic manual transmission and clutch . Won't mess your suit jacket on a trip from here to New York . Toyota Tercel . . . just 'cause they exist . . they are mongrel puppies that go and go and go and go . . . . . small and zippy . . but a loser in a front-ender! . . . or any ender! The Volkswagon Diesel Pick-up trucks . . . gads! THE greatest high-speed diesel engine ever made! Bar none! And . . get this . . . . 60 miles per gallon! The Honda Prelude . . . . . fast, clean, sport-y, breakproof . The Mazda RX series . . because they were just different . . . not long-lived . . . just different! . . . I pass the soapbox to you again . . . . . . . . . . . .	SurferJoe46 (51)
383965	2005-08-28 23:31:00	Strange how only the yanks are of the view that American Iron is the worlds best, You won't find any such view anywhere else. Cat owners strike me as being like Mac owners, sure they paid twice what the machine is worth,sure its under-powered, but they will never see that reality. And damn it, If the yanks don't wise up and figure out that burring the end of a bolt with a hammer is the most retarded way to keep a nut on, I'll damn near spit it....	Metla (12)
383966	2005-08-29 04:49:00	Strange how only the yanks are of the view that American Iron is the worlds best, You won't find any such view anywhere else. Cat owners strike me as being like Mac owners, sure they paid twice what the machine is worth,sure its under-powered, but they will never see that reality. And damn it, If the yanks don't wise up and figure out that burring the end of a bolt with a hammer is the most retarded way to keep a nut on, I'll damn near spit it.... Mind you,they do have the Holden(GM) versus Ford thing here!All yanky.	Cicero (40)
383967	2005-08-29 04:58:00	Holden Vs Ford? Mechanics are the winners......	Metla (12)
383968	2005-08-29 06:13:00	Freedom tastes of reality,what does that mean?	Cicero (40)
383969	2005-08-29 08:15:00	What does it mean? Well, it could mean different things to different people,like many things its open to interpretation, so rather then me telling you what I think it means . . . . I'll quote the source . . . I'M FREE- I'm free, And freedom tastes of reality, I'm free-I'm free, AN' I'm waiting for you to follow me . If I told you what it takes to reach the highest high, You'd laugh and say 'nothing's that simple' But you've been told many times before Messiahs pointed to the door And no one had the guts to leave the temple! I'm free-I'm free And freedom tastes of reality I'm free-I'm free And I'm waiting for you to follow me . [Chorus:] How can we follow? How can we follow? Written and performed by The Who,and from the Rock-opera Tommy . . . .	Metla (12)
383970	2005-08-29 08:43:00	Poetry all seems so absract to me,or put another way I usually don't get it.	Cicero (40)
383971	2005-08-29 09:22:00	Thankyou Metla from an aging hippie . Always liked that song . :thumbs: And Joe - I think what you say makes sense . Perhaps because we don't do the mileage that our American cousins do, and our roads are not so good, we find Japanese cars to be excellent . However in Australia larger cars have a firm following and the distances are American .	Winston001 (3612)
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