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Thread ID: 60964	2005-08-20 02:05:00	Obsessed With Safety?	Terry Porritt (14)	PC World Chat

Post ID	Timestamp	Content	User
382421	2005-08-20 10:51:00	I think this is a really interesting thread. I see two different themes being covered - general lack of risk-taking, and workplace safety. I think the general changes that can be seen in workplace safety are all for the good. There has been far too long a history of care-less (the hyphen is intentional) employers who have not had any interest in employee safety, and these people are now being brought into line. Many years ago (late 1960s)I worked for a safety consultant in the UK and some of the practices I saw were appalling. General trend to being risk-averse? Here is my theory. The generation represented by Terry (I am guessing) grew up in generally much more difficult times, had experience of wars and the like, and so minor dangers like breaking a leg with a home-made parachute were comparitively trivial. There was also a much greater self-reliance ethos. The generation growing up today (and their parents) have never generally known real hardship or personal risk to their lives, and so are much more nervous about minor issues and don't want their kids to face any risks at all. That's fairly superficial, but I hope you get the idea. The counter to this is of course the growth in extreme sports, where there can be real danger to life and limb - maybe there is a need for risk-taking in young humans that will find an outlet despite the best efforts of their elders.	Tony (4941)
382422	2005-08-20 11:22:00	Good post Tony. Workplace safety is an interesting topic because usually it is the employer that is blamed for accidents. However, employees have also been the cause of accidents due to taking short cuts. I'm thinking particularly when I worked at Joseph Lucas, probably one of the most enlightened of employers. It was not uncommon to find press machine operators removing guards so that they could feed in stock faster and operate the foot pedal.... thump.... no fingers. Then again I suppose, the system called "piece work" whereby operators were paid on quantity of output didn't help. Another time, due to cutting corners, I saw a drilling machine operator run a 1/2" drill through the palm of his hand. Another factor, during the war we children were left pretty much on our own, with either fathers away at war, or working long hours on shift work, together with working mothers. So we did things which would horrify the safety concious people of today.	Terry Porritt (14)
382423	2005-08-20 11:52:00	Good post Tony. Workplace safety is an interesting topic because usually it is the employer that is blamed for accidents. However, employees have also been the cause of accidents due to taking short cuts. I'm thinking particularly when I worked at Joseph Lucas, probably one of the most enlightened of employers. It was not uncommon to find press machine operators removing guards so that they could feed in stock faster and operate the foot pedal.... thump.... no fingers. Then again I suppose, the system called "piece work" whereby operators were paid on quantity of output didn't help. Another time, due to cutting corners, I saw a drilling machine operator run a 1/2" drill through the palm of his hand. Another factor, during the war we children were left pretty much on our own, with either fathers away at war, or working long hours on shift work, together with working mothers. So we did things which would horrify the safety concious people of today. Those were the days.They dropped two bombs in our village,one went off killing three people,the other one was found by one of the lads,we all had a good look at it and a play,how I wish we had our vests on. But you try and tell the young people today that... and they won't believe ya'.	Cicero (40)
382424	2005-08-20 13:13:00	Good topic, Terry. Reminds me when I was in school. As one of the back stage crew, and bored at times, I had the great idea of short-circuiting a mains plug so that when another crew member would plug it in, the breaker would trip (with a few sparks, fumes, and noise). Good fun. Probably would be a police matter these days. The other gem of an idea was when I wired an audio output transformer to a 9 v battery and a mercury switch, connected to two sides of an aluminium foil box. The small box had all sides covered with foil but only two sides connected to the transformer. Place it on a teacher's desk, or a classmate's desk, and just smile.... they would think it was a puzzle and started turning it and WHAM they got a good belt of a shock. Great fun, lots of laughs. Again, today doing a trick like that would give a pupil free sessions with a psyche, or worse.	Strommer (42)
382425	2005-08-20 16:28:00	I thought this thread started including kids in the subject of freedom. As a kid in Dunedin, I went to town by myself from about the age of nine. I either walked along the main street or took the bus to the Exchange, depending on finance. I spent my few pennies at Woolworths & then came home...probably walking because I'd spent my dosh on some glitter. As long as I was back in time for tea, nobody bothered. I was an independent person & there were no imagined dangers.. Twenty years later, I went out with a widower with 2 young sons. These boys had never been shopping alone. They'd been ferried everywere by car. By then, the world had decided children alone were unsafe.There was little evidence of that, but everyone had become paranoid on the basis of a few cases. Nowadays, parents have more reason to be concerned, it seems.(Certainly there are more obvious cases) but maybe an obsession with safety is stopping our kids from just getting about the business of life? Certainly, the high country fellers I know have even more reason now to worry about the city kids they're sent to work with. They come from a different world. (And strange though it may seem, I'm not bothered about my tree-climbing kneecap scar from age 10. It reminds me that free kids will do what kids will do...)	Laura (43)
382426	2005-08-20 23:33:00	There's 2 sides to the story, both seem to involve stupidity . Sometimes at work my employers call the "OSH" card when clients ask us to do something that is just too damn dangerous . I'm not going to give exact examples, but there are some who wont provide basic guards or precautions in situations where people could easily lose fingers . I'm told losing fingers is not good . Setting up and packing out shows means moving some very heavy stuff with deadlines that are not negotiable . Using the "O" word, however jokingly, is a good way of ensuring there is enough hands to ensure that the work is done saftely . 5 people pushing a box with over 1/2 a ton of cable up a ramp is a good idea . Thats 1 pushing directly, and 2 on each side pulling and guiding it up . This way we get things done quickly and saftely . On the otherhand OSH would be horrified that i used a rubbish bin as a ladder to strip some temperary cables off a tent roof at a show we were pulling down . At worst i may have fallen off and twisted my ankle, unlikely, particually as my coworker was holding the bin, but possable . I'm told OSH rules also state we should lift no more than 20Kg each . . . Do i need to state how seriously that rule is taken? Sometimes we just have to be practical to get things done .	personthingy (1670)
382427	2005-08-21 00:19:00	It's like everything,there is always a middle position. Like logging on the coast,there are those that would clear fell the lot and those that would have us leave the lot like it is.The truth is do anything in a sustainable way and hope intelligence prevails.	Cicero (40)
382428	2005-08-21 00:33:00	There is no Obsession With Safety when it comes to people driving cars In fact in the last ten years Electrical workers have been made to do "First Aid" every 2 years, while that is not so bad, the way some people drive, drivers should be made to do First Aid as well!	ERR (8231)
382429	2005-08-21 00:45:00	I'm told OSH rules also state we should lift no more than 20Kg each... Do i need to state how seriously that rule is taken? Sometimes we just have to be practical to get things done. When you lift something too heavy and stuff your back you'll join the huge number of nurses, baggage handlers etc who've done the same thing getting things done. When you hobble down the road to physio your boss might wave as he drives past.	PaulD (232)
382430	2005-08-21 01:15:00	When you lift something too heavy and stuff your back you'll join the huge number of nurses, baggage handlers etc who've done the same thing getting things done. When you hobble down the road to physio your boss might wave as he drives past.I can lift up to 50Kg with ease, but, i know how to lift properly. Its not so much how much we lift, but if we lift it properly or not. Most people just don't get that the best way of lifting is to squat down beside the load, get under it and lift. One person each end, even and balanced. We are not going to be stupid about it, but we are going get the job done. The show must go on after all. Do you really think 4 strong people should stand around waiting for a forklift to move a 100Kg box onto a truck?	personthingy (1670)
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