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Thread ID: 61370	2005-09-02 10:23:00	WFTWE #170...Anthropopsychism...No joking, the US disaster is mind-boggling...	Billy T (70)	PC World Chat

Post ID	Timestamp	Content	User
385470	2005-09-05 01:57:00	What you say Joe has merit,but you do have super crispie bacon.They don't get it right here for some reason.	Cicero (40)
385471	2005-09-05 02:03:00	".......What you say Joe has merit,but you do have super crispie bacon.They don't get it right here for some reason."..Uh huh... Just pop it into the old microwave and cook it until crispy...no nitrosamines either!	SurferJoe46 (51)
385472	2005-09-05 02:13:00	.........is just another way of saying that they are licensed to commit murder and mayhem as long as they themselves come out on top. It gives teeth to the arguement for evolution...I say devolution is the truth of the matter. Big sticks or guns and force do not the right make. Fortunately evolution also developed co-operation between humans. Teamwork. Helping your neighbour pays off because they can help you. Thus communities (tribes/clans) arose. Chimps do it, as do meerkats. So while we have primal instincts, they also include what might be regarded as altruistic instincts to look after one another. The need to damage or kill another human only occurs when it is a matter of survival or protection of your gene pool - ie. mum and the kids. What we are seeing in New Orleans is different. I agree Joe that it is a licence to commit whatever crime anyone can get away with. Anarchy, not instinct. I suspect the drug culture, availability of weapons, and a frustrated black underclass are at the root of this. Basically the circumstances have allowed the tensions to be released in violence.	Winston001 (3612)
385473	2005-09-05 02:31:00	Winston001....couldn't have said it better..ty for the insight.	SurferJoe46 (51)
385474	2005-09-05 02:47:00	Just hit this from the BBC in London: About 20 Britons evacuated from the city's Superdome have already flown back to the UK, while others await flights. Will Nelson, 21, arrived at Gatwick Airport on Sunday morning after spending five days in the "pretty intimidating" Superdome. I have no confidence in the British government - they are not doing enough for people out here Wayne Henry He said: "Everyone was pushing and shoving and shouting. It escalated into chaos really. Everyone was getting more desperate. Everyone was running out of food." Adam Friend, 21, of Exeter, told BBC News he felt unsafe, saying: "It turned into a race issue in there...it was only a minority of the people that did it, but they made us feel very unsafe, throwing bottles at us. Criticising the UK embassy response, Mr Friend said: "I have never known a more useless bunch of people in my life. The press managed to gain access to the Superdome but they couldn't." Wayne Henry 48, who flew to America to find his son, Peter, was also critical. He said: "I have no confidence in the British government. They are not doing enough for people out here," he told BBC News. See? The whole thing was a fiasco......on all sides......	SurferJoe46 (51)
385475	2005-09-05 02:50:00	Anarchism is a rational theory and philosophy, requiring observation and thought, and above all else, organizing and action. Does anarchist rejection of Truth mean that anarchism, in turn, means anything goes? Yes, and no -- that which destroys illegitimate authority is anarchistic; that which doesn't, isn't. That is the basis for our methodology, and for our resistance to the privileged and powerful. It means that the only legitimate authority is that which is freely accepted, in the complete absence of coercion -- e.g., free association. This allows for an extraordinarily wide range of human activity, and creates the appearance of "anything goes" -- anarchy -- but this can only be attained through consistent, dedicated organizing on the part of the members of society.	Cicero (40)
385476	2005-09-05 04:41:00	This allows for an extraordinarily wide range of human activity, and creates the appearance of "anything goes" -- anarchy -- but this can only be attained through consistent, dedicated organizing on the part of the members of society. I see. So anarchy means anything goes - but only if the anarchists spend all their time getting organised. And conforming to each other. Fascinating. Well that has certainly made my day. Cleared up that little mystery. Think I'll pop off to the Monty Python site for some more enlightenment. ;)	Winston001 (3612)
385477	2005-09-05 04:54:00	Up front, please let me say that I am sorry for the length of this post . . . but this is not a url hunt and I feel that this is too important to just paste a link: sorry, like I say for the length . . . . the end has the credit attached . MSNBC . com Some evacuees see religious message in Katrina Across three states, survivors weigh links among faith, sin and the storm Reuters Updated: 5:43 p . m . ET Sept . 4, 2005 HOUSTON - In the last week, Joseph Brant lost his apartment, walked by scores of dead in the streets, traversed pools of toxic water and endured an arduous journey to escape the aftermath of Hurricane Katrina in his hometown New Orleans . On Sunday, he was praising the Lord, saying the ordeal was a test that ended up dispelling his lifelong distrust of white people and setting his life on a new course . He said he hitched a ride Friday in a van driven by a group of white folks . “Before this whole thing I had a complex about white people; this thing changed me forever,” said Brant, 36, a truck driver who, like many of the refugees receiving public assistance in Houston, Texas, is black . “It was a spiritual experience for me, man,” he said of the aftermath of a catastrophe al Qaida-linked Web sites called evidence of the “wrath of God” striking an arrogant America . Brant was one of the evacuees across Texas, Louisiana and Mississippi who gave thought to religion Sunday, almost a week after the floods changed their lives, perhaps forever . For one, ‘the work of Satan’ At the Astrodome in Houston, where 16,000 refugees received food and shelter, Rose McNeely took the floods as a sign from God to move away from New Orleans, where she said her two grown children had been killed in past years in gunfights . “I lost everything I had in New Orleans,” she said as she shared a cigarette with a friend . “He brought me here because he knows . ” Gerald Greenwood, 55, collected a free Bible earlier in the morning, but sat watching a science fiction television program above the stands in an enclosed stadium once home to Houston’s baseball and football teams . “This is the work of Satan right here,” he said of the floods . The Bible was one of the few books many of the refugees had among their possessions . On Friday, several Jehovah’s Witnesses walked the floor of the Astrodome, where thousands of cots were set up, to offer their services . For another, the wages of sin On Sunday, the Salvation Army conducted an outside religious service that included songs such as “What a Friend We Have in Jesus . ” “Natural disaster is caused by the sin in the world,” said Maj . John Jones, area commander for the Salvation Army, who led the service . “The acts of God are what happens afterwards . . . all the good that happens . ” “God made all this happen for a reason . This city has been going to hell in a handbasket spiritually,” Tim Washington, 42, said at New Orleans’ Superdome Saturday as he waited to be evacuated . (Do these people even read the Bible they say the represent?) “If we can spend billions of dollars chasing after [Osama] bin Laden, can’t we get guns and drugs off the street?”, he asked . Washington said he stole a boat last Monday and he and a friend, using wooden fence posts as oars, delivered about 200 people to the shelter . “The sheriff’s department stood across the street and did nothing,” he added . The Salvation Army’s Jones was one of many trying to comfort victims in Sunday services across several states . What God demands At St . Aloysius Catholic Church in Baton Rouge, several hundred local parishioners and storm survivors attended the Sunday service . “I wish we could take your broken hearts and give you ours,” Rev . Donald Blanchard told the gathering . In addition to consoling storm victims, the church’s lead pastor, Jerald Burns, said Katrina’s tragedy needed to be a rallying cry for parishioners, church leaders and government leaders to help the needy . “It’s not what God is asking of us,” Burns said . “It is what God is demanding of us . ” Some people walked out of the church in tears in mid-service . Churches in many states have taken in evacuees and organized aid for people who in many cases lost everything they had in the storm . But at least some bristled at the role of religion in helping the afflicted . “We’re getting reports of how some religion-based ’aid’ groups are trying to fly evangelists into the stricken areas and how U . S . Army chaplains are carrying bibles -- not food or water -- to ’comfort’ people,” Ellen Johnson, president of American Atheist, said in a statement . “People need material aid, medical care and economic support -- not prayers and preaching,” she said . Copyright 2005 Reuters Limited . © 2005 MSNBC . com URL: . msnbc . msn . com/id/9206991/" target="_blank">www . msnbc . msn . com	SurferJoe46 (51)
385478	2005-09-05 05:40:00	I see. So anarchy means anything goes - but only if the anarchists spend all their time getting organised. And conforming to each other. Fascinating. Well that has certainly made my day. Cleared up that little mystery. Think I'll pop off to the Monty Python site for some more enlightenment. ;) The anarchist, holds that human beings are basically good and not in need of guidance, coercion, and control -- indeed, we hold steadfastly to the idea that the only evils in society come about when some seek to control and coerce others, and that the mechanisms of power, privilege, and control turn even the saintliest stalwart into a connniving manipulator. In other words, anarchists view people as good, and systems of control as bad, whereas ideologues hold the other view -- that people are bad, and systems of control are good (so long as THEY control those systems -- if someone else controls them, then they're bad -- that's how they seem anti-authoritarian when out of power -- but just wait until they do get a measure of power, and you'll see). It's an important difference, and determines the nature of the organization that arises from these foundations. The organization based on a negative view of human nature will focus on power and control, centralizing these things in as few hands as possible -- the people who can be trusted with such power (meaning, the most obedient and doctrinally sound), whereas the organization based on a positive view of human nature will seek to disseminate power and eliminate control, decentralizing and dispersing these in as many hands as possible. The most pernicious threat of the ideologue is that they exempt themselves from their own rules -- again, stemming from the notion that THEY have "seen the light" and the rest are either: 1) idiots; or 2) evil (for turning their backs on the Truth). Thus, they can never be reasoned with, because they are irrational themselves -- if you object to their program, regardless of the reason, then you are at fault, not them. That's why a natural corollary of the ideologue is the use of force -- because they are dogmatic and irrational, all they can ultimately rely on for legitimacy is force, which necessitates centralization and control of force -- e.g., the State, in a newer, more pernicious form. In a sense, the ideologue is a closeted authoritarian, which is why they are so treacherous. They seem anarchistic because they reject authority that exists when they have no part in it; however, they are really objecting to being disempowered themselves, rather than rejecting authority itself. When they attain a position of authority, they turn as despotic as anyone who preceded them. Their Authority is in their ideology itself--their Big Idea--which you resist at your own peril. It was this that caused the Galleanists (Italian anarchist followers of Luigi Galleani) to engage in several bombing campaigns, even against innocent passerby--to the Galleanists, anyone who didn't get The Idea wasn't innocent. So you see there anarchist and anarchists.Well that is how it was explained to me by Monty. :lol:	Cicero (40)
385479	2005-09-06 02:39:00	Surfer Joe, et . al . - Have you seen, heard of, on television, radio, newspapers, any clear indication of why nothing was done to help the 15k people stranded in the New Orleans sports dome? Or the many others? Has anyone asked a clear direct question to the governor of LA, or the head of Civil Defense, or similar officials in neighboring states: "When you saw that people were not being helped, why did you sit and not make anything happen?" And was there ever a clear direct answer? BTW, I am leaving Bush the Chimp out of this . Imho he is not smart enough to figure out that at least a few helicopters should have delivered aid, immediately after the winds died down . Also, it is all too easy to place blame on the President . There are others that should have acted .	Strommer (42)
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