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Thread ID: 61370	2005-09-02 10:23:00	WFTWE #170...Anthropopsychism...No joking, the US disaster is mind-boggling...	Billy T (70)	PC World Chat

Post ID	Timestamp	Content	User
385460	2005-09-03 22:24:00	I'm just gonna be quiet here................... Not like you Joe. :)	Cicero (40)
385461	2005-09-03 23:43:00	Pearl Harbor attack "The government knew it was going to happen but allowed it to enter WW2" 9 / 11 "The government knew it was going to happen but allowed it to get rid of Saddam . " New Orleans "The government was warned that the levees would not hold during a storm the magnitude of Katrina, but did nothing so as to get rid of poor blacks . " So conspiracy theories go . . . . The real reason the thousands of Katrina victims are not being helped, imho, is simple ineptnitude, stupidity, of the USA government . Same goes for Pearl Harbour and 9/11: the inability to consider an attack on the USA, by a country, terrorists, or Nature . If Bush had some of his family there, as victims, by God he would make things happen, fast . But Bush cannot be the only one blamed - he is no dictator - what about neighbouring states and the many other disaster agencies? Why did not someone deliver insulin, baby formula, water, etc . , soon after the winds died down? Surfer Joe, what do you think? I wanted to wait for the smoke and ashes to settle first, and without anger or becoming defensive, I will now climb back on my soapbox . I agree with the WW2 part and knowing the attack on Pearl was gonna happen, but the US was in an isolationist genre at that time, and to get the US citizens really angry enough to counter attack Japan needed something of this breadth and insult to rally enough hatred . That was a very dark time for the US and the office of president . 9/11 was a MAYBE . I dunnow for sure and probably history will be rewritten to hide the salient points . The jury's out yet in the general populace . As far as New Orleans, well the people were given a 72 hour minimum warning to evacuate . Ya gotta remember that these people are not easily shook for a little wind and rain . They've been through it many times before, and they are really tougher by attrition than any ol' storm . Those who live on the cusp are self-enabling and bullheaded anyway . The US F . E . M . A . and the Army Corps of Engineers have foretold of this same scenerio for years . Living below sea level is risky and not an "if it happens" rather a "when it happens" projection . The imminence of severe flooding by prophecy and reality have all been realized now, and there is not much good in "I told you so's" . Hindsight is always 20/20 . Reality is relative to the audience, I think, and is therfore suspect in grand, sweeping statements applying blame and pointing fingers at leaders and civil directors . Remember the old poem about the want of a horseshoe nail and the loss of a kingdom? The nut-cases with the guns and rifles shooting at the authorities . . . well, I guess there's a 2% factor in every nation . . right? I don't pretend to understand or commiserate with that sort of mentality . One of the first things I learned in Psychology Class 1-A, was "every action has a cause . . . if you can understand the motive, you can cure the condition" . Scholastically, there are all sorts of free thinkers who would again point and snicker and berate activities that are out of the norm . I don't know the reasons why or causes of shooting at rescuers trying to perform that function, when one might need the services of that rescuer themselves . Ahem! As a citizen here, and trying to be apolitical and non-judgemental, I proffer asking for slightly less broad strokes with smears and innuendoes and mercy for those who are at the mercy of others . My hands would be out to assist and provide succor to anyone, NZ'ers included . I don't ask WHY or IF I can (or SHOULD) help, but WHERE can I help most? Now, we are gonna get the Jesse Jackson spin . . just wait and see .	SurferJoe46 (51)
385462	2005-09-04 00:12:00	There seems always a readiness to become attached to unfounded conjecture,never understood this mob attitude. Just heard Bush admitting some tardiness of the response time..	Cicero (40)
385463	2005-09-04 00:26:00	I wonder if the U.S will take up Cuba's offer of help? I would hope that if this sought of thing happen here we would be a lot faster to respond, I also believe the area affected was about the same size as N.Z On one of the news channels there were two news clipping's, One a black couple carrying good's/ food with the caption underneath "Looter's in action" Another couple this time white carrying same sought of stuff with caption"survivor's found food" Forgive me if my quotes arn't 100% accurate...	plod (107)
385464	2005-09-04 02:03:00	They tell us that the whole area of the disaster is the size of the United Kingdom..imagine trying to evacuate that land mass too., or get aid to the interior if there is no fuel/electricity/communication..tough..huh?	SurferJoe46 (51)
385465	2005-09-04 05:58:00	>>>>>>>> As a citizen here, and trying to be apolitical and non-judgemental, I proffer asking for slightly less broad strokes with smears and innuendoes and mercy for those who are at the mercy of others. My hands would be out to assist and provide succor to anyone, NZ'ers included. I don't ask WHY or IF I can (or SHOULD) help, but WHERE can I help most? Now, we are gonna get the Jesse Jackson spin..just wait and see. __________________ Joe Vreeland (aka: SurferJoe46) >>>>>>>> I agree, right on! I live in Wellington, and am not inclined to feel smug about people caught in a natural disaster, even a predictable one. It can be a category 5 hurricane in one place and a magnitude 9 earthquake in another. We need to help each other when the occasion arises, because it could be our turn next time...	Jayess64 (8703)
385466	2005-09-04 06:28:00	Have a look at this (www3.nationalgeographic.com) article from National Geographic, dated Oct. 2004. Excerpt: The storm hit Breton Sound with the fury of a nuclear warhead, pushing a deadly storm surge into Lake Pontchartrain. The water crept to the top of the massive berm that holds back the lake and then spilled over. Nearly 80 percent of New Orleans lies below sea level—more than eight feet below in places—so the water poured in. A liquid brown wall washed over the brick ranch homes of Gentilly, over the clapboard houses of the Ninth Ward, over the white-columned porches of the Garden District, until it raced through the bars and strip joints on Bourbon Street like the pale rider of the Apocalypse. As it reached 25 feet (eight meters) over parts of the city, people climbed onto roofs to escape it. Thousands drowned in the murky brew that was soon contaminated by sewage and industrial waste. Thousands more who survived the flood later perished from dehydration and disease as they waited to be rescued. It took two months to pump the city dry, and by then the Big Easy was buried under a blanket of putrid sediment, a million people were homeless, and 50,000 were dead. It was the worst natural disaster in the history of the United States. When did this calamity happen? It hasn't—yet. But the doomsday scenario is not far-fetched. The Federal Emergency Management Agency lists a hurricane strike on New Orleans as one of the most dire threats to the nation, up there with a large earthquake in California or a terrorist attack on New York City. Even the Red Cross no longer opens hurricane shelters in the city, claiming the risk to its workers is too great.	Strommer (42)
385467	2005-09-04 16:55:00	Let's not leave out the human factor here . . . the one that says: "to hell with reality, I wanna live HERE!" OK . . . just this AM on the national news shows we find that the rescuers are finding 10's of thousands of people who still (after a week) are JUST coming out of their homes . . having refused rescue and removal to higher ground . See what I am getting to here? If people want to and decide to stay in SPITE OF FEDERAL WARNINGS that were at least 72 hours in advance of the storm's arrival . . . then how're you gonna force them to be safe and sane in the same moment . The whole Bourbon Street mentality exists here . . . in the form that they want to stay and they won't go when they are faced with total destruction and probably death . The sub-sealevel lands on which they live and prospered are now gone . . . New Orleans is no more, but they still don't want to go to safety . Now I believe in frontier independance and the standing tall scenerios, but they pushed the envelope of mental creditability here . If they saw animals in two-by-twos, they'd still refuse to get on the Ark . Didn't only 8 people make it in Noah's day? The weather prognosticators all said this was gonna be the "Perfect Storm" for the area . . . and the unpredictability of the track of the storm made it that much more dangerous . Yet they stayed and died figuring the officials to be wrong again . Rugged individuality aside here, I still am amazed that there was so much death with humanity lowered to animal tactics and survival of the fittest . Again, the Monday morning quarterbacking (a US Football term) is always right . . . but at game time, truth and facts are not well received and honored .	SurferJoe46 (51)
385468	2005-09-04 23:59:00	Lord of the Flies - by William Golding. Some of us will recall this book from school. The lesson was that civilisation and good behaviour are a thin veneer over our primal instincts. When authority is removed and circumstances become desperate, people revert to more basic instincts. That explains looting of food which is just common sense. Survival. But rape, murder, and shooting at rescue helicoptors? Very hard to understand from this distance.	Winston001 (3612)
385469	2005-09-05 00:29:00	Lord of the Flies - by William Golding . Some of us will recall this book from school . The lesson was that civilisation and good behaviour are a thin veneer over our primal instincts . When authority is removed and circumstances become desperate, people revert to more basic instincts . That explains looting of food which is just common sense . Survival . But rape, murder, and shooting at rescue helicoptors? Very hard to understand from this distance . Lord of the Flies was a "in your face" indictment of the godless society we now live in or are rapidly approaching . Take the conscience (fear of god) out of people and you get animals . Licensed sodomy, partial-birth abortions and unnatural views on females are typical of a dying race, not to mention lifestyle . New Orleans is the heaviest voodoo-practicing area of the US . Coupled with that is a laissaiz-faire attention to things that go bump in the night . Occultism and witchcraft are abundant and openly practiced . What would a practicing warlock do in the face of that situation; they have very low regard for others as it is, why not shoot at things that are bringing aid and care to others? The pay-off is AIDS, incest, bestiality, prisons overflowing with criminals, defacto religionists preaching that god is love and you are forgiven, no matter what you continue doing and offering absolution every Sunday . . . all significant and indicative . There's only one true authority and the fact that it is being ignored is painfully evident . I do not however think this is just a local (US) phenom . . . . look at the Muslims who commit murderous bombings and killings to infidels whilst committing suicide for a few virgins, a pack of cigarettes and maybe a good seat in heaven . Gads! Looting food and water and shelter is one thing . . . packing off a 72 inch HDTV set is something else . I don't think surviving is aided by large screen tv's . I heard a preacher saying (in defense of his god-is-love stand), when asked if Christianity had failed: "I don't think it's ever really been tried!" your: "When authority is removed and circumstances become desperate, people revert to more basic instincts . " . . . . . . . . . is just another way of saying that they are licensed to commit murder and mayhem as long as they themselves come out on top . It gives teeth to the arguement for evolution . . . I say devolution is the truth of the matter . Big sticks or guns and force do not the right make .	SurferJoe46 (51)
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