Forum Home
PC World Chat
Thread ID: 61781	2005-09-16 08:17:00	Torture Is Valid?	Winston001 (3612)	PC World Chat

Post ID	Timestamp	Content	User
388729	2005-09-22 19:03:00	I think it's a matter of "at what point do we give up our moral stand". Years ago someone put an argument to me; most of use wouldn't even dream of robbing a bank. His argument was that if you could steal $1000000 from a huge corporation that would hardly miss it, nobody could get hurt and you had 100% chance of getting away with it, most us us would do it. Our morals would slip and something else would take over. A terriorist likely to kill many people within a few hours would also change our moral stance to a degree that many of us would feel that the end justifies the means. There are many things that we wouldn't dream of doing. But, as circumstances change, so does our view on the unthinkable. Cannibal rugby players in the Andes also come to mind.	Standing_Amazed (7841)
388730	2005-09-22 21:59:00	Morals are over-rated, I would take the money.....And torture the terriorist, and tuck into a good feed of Kentucky Fried Soccer Player....	Metla (12)
388731	2005-09-22 22:56:00	Spot on Mr L. Terry, a wee pick "Torture has always been with us and is part of human behaviour." I'm not sure if human behaviour is the right term or whether you meant it the way I'm reading it but, most people find such things as torture and violence to ones fellow man kind of difficult to carry out on an every day basis, in a second nature type of way. Would aberrant or even deviant behaviour better describe such things, or exclude the word us? Your right Winnie, it makes some of us feel uncomfortable. Well, some believe in the inherent goodness of humans, others the inherent badness. I tend to go along with the view that humans only behave decently when things are going well, and that mutual cooperation helps to keep the tribe together. But when things go bad that is all forgotten. Then ill treatment of one another does become endemic on a day to day basis as we witness during wartime time, or as we are seeing in Iraq. It would be interesting to be able to determine the percentage of a population that would degrade to violence and torture given the right circumstances. I suspect it would be surprisingly high. So really all I was saying is that torture in one form or another has always been part of human behaviour.	Terry Porritt (14)
388732	2005-09-23 02:50:00	I tend to go along with the view that humans only behave decently when things are going well, and that mutual cooperation helps to keep the tribe together. But when things go bad that is all forgotten. It would be interesting to be able to determine the percentage of a population that would degrade to violence and torture given the right circumstances. I suspect it would be surprisingly high. There are three aspects of human behaviour here. 1. Co-operation and protection of each other. This is the basis of community. Being decent to your fellow citizens gives an individual safety in numbers. Trapping mammoths is easier with a team, as is warding off attentive sabre toothed tigers. 2. Stranger danger. We don't respond well to humans we don't know. And this is especially true if their skin is a different colour or if they insist on whipping out a mat at random and prostrating themselves to Allah. So we can be cruel to humans who pose a threat. 3. Dominance. Within the group, being powerful has its rewards. Females are attracted and a male can enlarge his genepool. Strangers or fringe members are useful to demonstrate power against. We are only a thin veneer of civilisation away from being animals ourselves as Golding demonstrated in Lord of the Flies. So it shouldn't be suprising when torture and violence occurs.	Winston001 (3612)
388733	2005-09-23 04:34:00	It's been a quiet day, so what the hell........ I notice than nobody has brought religion into this debate, nothing about crucifixion, saving souls, god's will that we torture/don't torture/suffer/die/get our just desserts etc. Is there not one person among us who believes that religion has all the answers, torture included? Excepting Metla of course, he defined his faith very succinctly: The god of me, and he appears none the worse off for that either. Cheers Billy 8-{) :D	Billy T (70)
388734	2005-09-23 04:41:00	The "Holy Office" used torture, but eventually realised that it didn't work . (#31) . But torture's popular because it's fun . Like hanging, flogging, and other means of encouraging community spirit and goodwill .	Graham L (2)
388735	2005-09-23 04:57:00	As a matter of fact, I started my own country....and I named it after myself...muhahahahaha. Anyhow, The "game" asks you a few questions which shapes the starting point of your country and every day you have an issue to resolve that is reflected in your society. This is my place as of 3 days.. The United States of Metla The United States of Metla is a small, environmentally stunning nation, remarkable for its compulsory military service. Its hard-nosed, hard-working, cynical population of 7 million are rabid consumers, partly through choice and partly because the government tells them to and dissenters tend to vanish from their homes at night. The government -- a sprawling, bureaucracy-choked morass -- devotes most of its attentions to Law & Order, with areas such as Social Welfare and Religion & Spirituality receiving almost no funds by comparison. Citizens pay a flat income tax of 30%. Private enterprise is illegal, but for those in the know there is a slick and highly efficient black market in Door-to-door Insurance Sales. Voting is voluntary, citizens are barcoded to keep track of their movements, and employers may fire workers without giving any reason. Crime is moderate. Metla's national animal is the wet *****, which frolics freely in the nation's many lush forests, and its currency is the fish. Metla is ranked 2242nd in the region and 41,453rd in the world for Largest Automobile Manufacturing Sector.	Metla (12)
388736	2005-09-23 11:21:00	I notice than nobody has brought religion into this debate, nothing about crucifixion, saving souls, god's will that we torture/don't torture/suffer/die/get our just desserts etc . Is there not one person among us who believes that religion has all the answers, torture included? Billy 8-{) :D I hadn't really given it any thought Billy . The proposition is that secular authorities are justified in using torture in extreme cases . Sharia Law (Islam) has some harsh penalties but I have no idea whether it approves torture . Christianity doesn't although the Old Testament has violent episodes . I've never heard of Buddhists or Hindus using torture as part of their religion . The Incas and Aztecs were pretty tough on virgins . There was the Inquisition which lasted about 150 years . The French and Spanish were the most enthusiastic exponents . But the Inquisition was a corruption which abused the Christian faith . It was a political instrument wielded by the Catholic Church against the Knights Templar . So I don't think torture is advocated by many religions unless it is a rite of purification, such as wearing a hair shirt .	Winston001 (3612)
388737	2005-09-23 12:58:00	I notice than nobody has brought religion into this debate, nothing about crucifixion, saving souls, god's will that we torture/don't torture/suffer/die/get our just desserts etc. Is there not one person among us who believes that religion has all the answers, torture included? Billy 8-{) :D I don't think that religion has any part in this discussion, except that a societys' religion is often directly related to it's ethics. I certainly don't see why one would consider "saving souls" or "Gods will" to come in to play here. Like any father God wants us to control our own destiny, but He is there to help us in the right direction. There is a school of thought that suggests that the invention of the atomic bomb (thus ending WWII) was Gods way of saying enough is enough, this far and no further. But that's perhaps for another thread..... Although crucifixion was a particular nasty torture used by the Romans for quite some time. Interestingly torture appears to have arrived about the same time as civilisation.....	Standing_Amazed (7841)
388738	2005-09-24 08:11:00	Although crucifixion was a particular nasty torture used by the Romans for quite some time. Interestingly torture appears to have arrived about the same time as civilisation..... Just a small point. Civilisation is about 5,000 years old whereas the crucifixions occured around 2,000 years ago. Nasty methods of execution were a way of sending a message to the general population. See what happens if you mess up.	Winston001 (3612)
1 2 3 4 5