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Thread ID: 62462	2005-10-08 08:44:00	Did Shell change its petrol?	Nomad (952)	PC World Chat

Post ID	Timestamp	Content	User
394532	2005-10-09 08:58:00	diesel is liquid gold these days, you can really notice the gauge go down on the new 100hp tractor we just got, and every bulk tank of diesel is getting more and more expensive :groan:	Prescott (11)
394533	2005-10-09 09:33:00	There is a good article about it in Consumer Magazine no.451 (NZ), September 2005, pages 41 - 42. Click on this link to it: www.consumer.org.nz fuel changes (www.consumer.org.nz 20way&topic=Cleaner%20petrol%20and%20diesel%20on%20the%2 0way)	xxll (5902)
394534	2005-10-09 14:54:00	xxll: That's the same thing California did to consumers about 10 years ago . They started to require that diesel fuel manufacturers produce CARB (California Air-Resources Board) Diesel, basically that same thing you are now getting . The destruction of Roosa-Master (Stanodyne), Kiki, Nippon-Denso, Zexels (not so badly affected), Aki-Bono and Caterpiller Vee-type injection pumps cost the state millions of US dollars for repairs to these pumps and also to many sets of injectors . Many engines use "lift pumps" sending the fuel to the injection pump where the pressures are raised for injection into the cylinders . . . these have diaphragms that require plasticizers to keep them supple and flexible too . People forget that the injectors need the "aromatics and sulphur" to run and lubricate the nozzles/pintles and the less-than-1-micron-clearances in the pumps . Fuel leaks were all over the place . . . vehicle fires stopped freeways and drivers got stranded on the road when the pumps seized for lack of lubrication . :angry California rapidly dropped the requirements for low-sulphur/aromatic fuels (diesel) and never tried it again . One thing to watch out for is: Diesel #2 fuel is the standard of the industry and all diesel engines are designed to run well on it but at certain times of the year (Winter here, Summer there?) fuel companies send Diesel#1 for really cold weather . Since #1 has less parafin in it so it will not coagulate and drop out of suspension in your tank, it is a (basically) good thing and a true service to the consumer . However . . . certain "knowledgeable ones" read: environmentalists) believe that this fuel is cleaner burning, they lobby for it's use year 'round . Diesel #1 has a lot less BTU's in it and it also causes a lot of premature wear inside the critical pump and nozzles by not having the lubricocity values of #2 . California actually believed that Diesel #1 was an UPGRADE in quality to #2, and they posted new rules for the stations that dispense fuels that they did NOT have to inform the consumer that the fuel was #1 instead of #2 . Loss of power/higher-than-normal fuel consumption and extreme wear to injection systems result from this sort of logic . The truth-in-advertising laws are badly bruised and bandied about here for the sake of environmental whack-o's and greedy profiteering . The linked article suggested another interesting thing: "detuning your engine to accept the lower octane fuels" . Uh huh! Just try that on a OBD-II system! An interesting sidebar here: The size/capacity of fuel tanks (gas or diesel) are typically of sufficient volume to produce 300 miles of driving from a full tank, by federal standards here . (We have long distances to drive and not all areas in between have gas stations) . Since the advent of these new fuels, we now get about 140 to 180 miles per tankful . The cheap-o brands (BP, ARCO, PEMEX, SHELL/TEXACO, AM/PM, the discounts and the gypsies all vend fuel with a lot of methanol to increase profits with less actual gasoline in the mix . ALCOHOL DOES NOT INCREASE FUEL MILEAGE - it lowers it . Hope you guys get this straightened out .	SurferJoe46 (51)
394535	2005-10-09 20:38:00	I am certainly glad I run my car only on 98. Usually BP Ultimate, but occasionally Mobil Synergy 8000. My Jap Import Turbo was designed to run on 100 octane.	KiwiTT_NZ (233)
394536	2005-10-09 20:43:00	Yippy.. new fuel to clog my engine! woohoo! Now i suppose i'll have to keep the thing going with dodgy additives to keep the injectors clean and everything runing....	personthingy (1670)
394537	2005-10-09 23:20:00	I am certainly glad I run my car only on 98. Usually BP Ultimate, but occasionally Mobil Synergy 8000. My Jap Import Turbo was designed to run on 100 octane. You must love giving BP lots of money then.. Give me 91 any day. Actaually I seem to remeber when I was working in the US back in the mid 90s that most cars would run on 89 oct gas. 89/ 91 / 93 I think were the California Octain ratings..	paulw (1826)
394538	2005-10-10 02:51:00	You must love giving BP lots of money then.. Give me 91 any day. Actaually I seem to remeber when I was working in the US back in the mid 90s that most cars would run on 89 oct gas. 89/ 91 / 93 I think were the California Octain ratings.. Actually they are 83, 86, 91 now.	SurferJoe46 (51)
394539	2005-10-10 06:56:00	The energy used to produce and cook methanol (alcohol for gasoline mixtures) actually costs much more to produce than the energy it produces. John Q. Publik has no idea that he is using more energy than if he just used pure gasoline without all the special "formulations" demanded by some tree-hugger in some politician's face. Bio-mass fuels are not as efficient as good ol' gasoline. Great post Joe. You are a fount of knowledge. :D We don't have gasohol in NZ - yet. Environmentalists are often well educated people so it puzzles me that the Green movement has such a shallow understanding of this issue. Probably the politics of the matter is the Green antipathy towards large oil companies. They cannot conceive that anything which is an alternative to oil could be flawed. Your point about the energy value of alcohol is high school stuff but no-one seems to mention it on the media.	Winston001 (3612)
394540	2005-10-10 07:07:00	xxll: Many engines use "lift pumps" sending the fuel to the injection pump where the pressures are raised for injection into the cylinders . . . these have diaphragms that require plasticizers to keep them supple and flexible too . People forget that the injectors need the "aromatics and sulphur" to run and lubricate the nozzles/pintles and the less-than-1-micron-clearances in the pumps . . So what is put into petrol and diesel to lubricate the valve sleeves etc? We used to have lead but that is long gone .	Winston001 (3612)
394541	2005-10-10 07:43:00	SurferJoe46: As Winston001 said: Great post Joe. You are a fount of knowledge. :D I go along with that wholeheartedly. Thanks for your reply.	xxll (5902)
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