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Thread ID: 63049	2005-10-27 18:43:00	Halloween - yes or no?	Peterj116 (6762)	PC World Chat

Post ID	Timestamp	Content	User
399828	2005-10-28 20:25:00	Yes indeed . Life is short, and full of far too much negativity and bah-hum-bug people . Bring on fun and happiness! As Mackin rightly puts it: "Lighten up, Halloween it's just a bit of fun . " . . . and Mackin goes on with even more truth: And Witchcraft is no more harmful than Christianity, in fact I'd say a lot less harmful . * No . of Christians killed by Witches - hardly any . * No . of Witches killed by Christians - heaps . Yup! Ya Got me there . . . but you keep on using the capitol "C" for the assemblage that calls itself Christian . Actually, true Christianity died out in the first century of the new religion; at the death of the apostles, the "church" was so corrupted with alliances to state (the Roman OFFICIAL religion was christianity) and politics it had gone a far pace away from the original concept . Trying to gain general acceptance to the public, old non-Christian rites and observances were allowed . The in-bringing of paganism and idols and icons, trinitarian dieties, witchcraft and Satan worship, stained glass and pillories and Saints v Sinners is all after-the-fact and after the first century . Did you know that there were primative surgical proceedures to un-circumscribe those who wanted to get as far away from the cult as possible? However, I especially liked a Jewish Rabbi being interviewed on the old Johnny Carson Show here in the US when he was asked if "Christianity had somehow failed" . . . . his answer? "I don't think it's ever been tried yet" . My point is that there are a lot of persons who try to use the capitol "C" when in reality they are so far from the "New Covenent" in lifestyle, concept and knowldege that they rate only a lower-case "c" . and to Steve L: (Isaiah 22:13) 13 But, look! exultation and rejoicing, the killing of cattle and the slaughtering of sheep, the eating of flesh and the drinking of wine, ‘Let there be eating and drinking, for tomorrow we shall die . ’”	SurferJoe46 (51)
399829	2005-10-28 21:18:00	Hey SurferJoe, let me tell you, your post has brightened up my day. Its like you were one of our friends, sitting around here in our house, discussing spiritual matters. Thanks. There are not enough of us. All that you have written, we have discussed in much detail. On my desk in front of me is a CD that I made, taken from a Radio NZ interview with an Anglican minister in Canada, reviewing his book "The Pagan Christ". I also have made a similar CD of an American minister who was (wait for it, yes, it is true!) President Clinton's spiritual advisor. Now just because these two interviewees (sp?) are christian (yep, small "c" indeed!) ministers, it does not mean that they are brainwashed idiots like 99.999% of the flock. Clinton's advisor bluntly states, as you have, "christianity has not been tried yet", and the Canadian boldly states that JC the man never existed - he is a myth (and he goes on to say that knowing the full implications of this has improved his faith/practice. There simply is no, NO valid historical proof that Jesus ever was anything other than a myth, that, by the way, was around for at least 4K yrs ago. Of course we have read The Da Vinci Code, but have gone further and have separated fact from fiction. There is llots of fiction in The Da Vinci Code but most certainly much fact as well. Have you read "Secrets of the Code", which comprises some 50 - 60 essays by theologians, historians, etc.? Superb. Cannot find it now, for the publishing details. I have loaned this book to a number of friends. Oh, I also made a copy of those two (above) radio interviews and gave it to a friend of ours who is a newly ordained Anglican minister, a woman, very liberal (for an Anglican).... has stirred the old clergy in our area by being the first to conduct Civil Unions (marriage) for gays / lesbians. And FWIW, my sister lives in San Francisco and is an ex Unitarian minister. So you see Joe, your words are like music to my ears.	Strommer (42)
399830	2005-10-28 21:27:00	Actually, true Christianity died out in the first century of the new religion; at the death of the apostles, the "church" was so corrupted with alliances to state (the Roman OFFICIAL religion was christianity) [/COLOR] Many fled to southern France. They were subsequently wiped out by the christian soldiers. From memory, I believe they were the Gnostics, and about 80,000 were killed, men women children. Their "sin" was that they were able to connect with the Holy Spirit, the Divine, individually, without the need for the ROMAN heirarchy. Its all about CONTROL. And today, we can still see the Roman influence in the form of the eagles near the alter and pulpit.	Strommer (42)
399831	2005-10-28 21:34:00	Thread hijackers. :p SurferJoe: as the token Yank here, do you get much resistance to Halloween from anywhere in the good ol' US of A?	Peterj116 (6762)
399832	2005-10-28 22:05:00	Are you reading this FoxyMX ;) :p Maybe. Why do you ask? :p :D	FoxyMX (5)
399833	2005-10-28 22:10:00	It's pretty obvious who has got littlies . ;) Well I have got a couple of bags of goodies to hand out; all I need do now is grab my witchy hat and broom and I'm ready . :thumbs: I think it's great fun seeing the kidlets all dressed up in their ghoulish outfits and their excited little faces amazed at the stash they score . We are lucky that troublemakers are few and far between in this neighbourhood, if there are any at all, and the "trick" element is only lip service . In fact I often have to scold a lot of them for not chanting the obligatory trick or treat slogan before they get offered any booty . The ones that annoy me are the much bigger kids who think they can capitalise on what should be for their younger siblings . Having said that however, there have been a few groups of young teenagers turn up who put a huge amount of effort into their costumes and looked fantastic . They got their rewards, unlike their brothers who hadn't . No one is obliged to hand out goodies if they don't want to but most of these kiddies will have very fond memories of this sort of thing when they grow up so I'm not going to be a meanie who shoos them away . Anyway, it seems to be getting less popular now as last year I had heaps of goodies left over to scoff myself after having hardly any "trickle treaters" (as some of the tinies call it :D) visit .	FoxyMX (5)
399834	2005-10-28 22:17:00	Thread hijackers . :p SurferJoe: as the token Yank here, do you get much resistance to Halloween from anywhere in the good ol' US of A? There are some areas that stay clear of the event, but then again they muck it all up with other pagan beliefs and practices . . . just demon-swapping to me . On the community level, there doesn't seem to be much resistance here in SoCal . Being sarcastic here (am I sarcastic? Really?) the joke of the century goes like this: "Living in Southern California is like sitting naked in a bowl of crunchy granola cereal; what around you that ISN'T flakes and nuts is fruits!" I digressed a little there . Sorry . The point here is that anything goes in lotus-land . We have drive-in churches where you don't even have to wear clothes (nobody can see you in your car); churches so grand in design, one in particualar is called "God's Greenhouse" for all the glass and size . We have self-proclaimed "healers" operating next door to seers and fortune-tellers . California even has (and get this!) a LEGALLY LICENSED CLARVOYANT to help the police find the bodies! I wonder who is licensing these people and what the testing proceedure is all about! So-called "christian" churches sell Indian "Dream-Catchers" and Kachina dolls . . . all throw-backs to American Indian pagan gods and spirits . Occultism is the new religion, and if you don't find the one you like, shop around . There's even "God On-Line" and "Absolution . com" . We have "life partners" and "Janey Has Two Mommies" books on the library shelves . We have 12 y/o girls giving birth or oral sex and getting herpes in their throats . We have crack babies and firestations or hospitals that are not allowed to ask questions, but the babies get thrown out in dumpsters right next door anyway . See? Halloween isn't even the worst of it all . Formerly viewed as mainly an American holiday, Halloween has spread around the world, becoming popular among both children and adults . France, it seems, has embraced Halloween with open arms . According to one estimate, nearly a third of French households celebrated the event last year . The Italian daily La Repubblica speaks of the current fad as a “boom” that is sweeping the Italian peninsula . The newspaper Nordkurier states that “more [German] citizens than ever before do not want to miss out on the gruesome fun . ” Europe is not alone in falling under the spell of Halloween . From the Bahamas to Hong Kong, Halloween is being celebrated with gusto . The International Herald Tribune reports that last year a radio station in Sri Lanka held a competition for “the weirdest Halloween recipes and the most bloodcurdling death screams . ” Halloween also has a foothold in Japan, where ‘pumpkin parades’ with thousands of participants have been held in Tokyo . Even in parts of the world where Halloween is not popular, there are often festivals and celebrations that resemble it . During Britain’s Guy Fawkes Night, you can see roving bands of children who plead for money and play Halloweenlike pranks . In Taiwan, there is the colorful Lantern Festival . Small children roam the streets carrying lanterns that depict birds and beasts . Mexico has its Día de los Muertos, or Day of the Dead, a celebration that has traveled across the Mexican-U . S . border . According to writer Carlos Miller, some Mexican-Americans still “don wooden skull masks called calacas and dance in honor of their deceased relatives before going to Catholic Mass for the dead too . ” Most people might view such celebrations as nothing more than harmless fun—an excuse for children and adults to dress up and lose their inhibitions . Such a nonchalant viewpoint, however, ignores the fact that these celebrations are undeniably pagan in origin . Taiwan’s Lantern Festival, for example, was started when people lit lanterns in an attempt to see celestial spirits that they believed were floating in the sky . Mexico’s Day of the Dead has its origin in an Aztec ritual that honored the dead after eating the hearts of the (then) living persons and later having a sexual orgy with the body . Some even on this site might argue that the origin of celebrations like these is of little consequence . But ya gotta ask yourself . . . . . . . . . . . ‘Can celebrations that have such dark origins really be viewed as harmless?’ Commercial promoters of these celebrations are certainly not concerned . After all, it's the $$$$ . Regarding Halloween, a representative of the Cultural Institute of Barcelona, Spain, observed: “It is a festival that is being implanted from a commercial point of view . ” Why, last year, receipts from Halloween were estimated at $6 . 8 billion in the United States alone . In France, a company that makes Halloween costumes has seen its business increase more than a hundredfold in just three years . But is it just the money or is there a darker, more horrible element involved?	SurferJoe46 (51)
399835	2005-10-28 22:54:00	I'll let the dogs take care of it	Edward (31)
399836	2005-10-28 23:44:00	Surferjoe46 Some even on this site might argue that the origin of celebrations like these is of little consequence . Yep . But ya gotta ask yourself . . . . . . . . . . . ‘Can celebrations that have such dark origins really be viewed as harmless?’ Yes, totally harmless . As a former religious fanatic who once had the same attitude as you appear to embrace, namely: everything that has pagan origins must be avoided at all costs, I think I can see where you are coming from . I'm assuming you imagine yourself as a true Christian who follows the teachings of Christ and the Apostles and rejects Christendom as it exists since the Apostles died out . Your not a Jehovah's Witness are you? Some of the stuff you are posting is remarkably similar to their rantings . Thankfully my life is now completely free from any belief in the supernatural, Christian or otherwise . There are no gods, no angels, devils or demons . Religion is nothing more than fear and superstition that hardens hearts and enslaves minds . It doesn't matter to me any more how Halloween, Christmas, Easter, [insert festival/celebration of choice here] originated, all it means now is a bit of fun . Lighten up, enjoy yourself, have fun . Life's to short to burden yourself down with religious rules and dogma . Oh, and as for the capital "C" thing . It's grammatically correct to use a capital "C" in front of the word Christian, its got nothing to do with belief or opinion . .	Mackin_NZ (6958)
399837	2005-10-29 04:07:00	Oh, and as for the capital "C" thing. It's grammatically correct to use a capital "C" in front of the word Christian, its got nothing to do with belief or opinion.. The point is that there are no Christians, only christians. As SurferJoe says: "but you keep on using the capitol "C" for the assemblage that calls itself Christian. Actually, true Christianity died out in the first century" It is a subtle point...	Strommer (42)
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