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Thread ID: 63485	2005-11-11 05:09:00	Government intervention in the housing market.	martynz (5445)	PC World Chat

Post ID	Timestamp	Content	User
403454	2005-11-11 05:09:00	The banks and estate agents are squealing already. Imho anything that upsets those greedy bastards can't be all bad. Martynz	martynz (5445)
403455	2005-11-11 06:04:00	Is this news or conjecture?	andrew93 (249)
403456	2005-11-11 06:54:00	It's a possibility proposed by Alan Bollard, probably a sign of panic. Don Brash obviously had prescience when he left the Reserve Bank and went into politics. It has been obvious for yonks that only having one tool, ie control of the OCR, plus I suppose trying to talk the economy up or down, to try to control inflation is less than satisfactory. There are just too many complex interacting factors, from the "Asian Invasion" and population increase putting extreme demand on infrastructure and housing, to the advent of China becoming the worlds manufacturer together with our lack of domestic manufacture, the high dollar(due to high interest rates) making imports cheaper thus causing balance pf payments debts. We are at a turning point where the conventional 'right wing' Keynsian economics is not succeeding. Even Gareth Morgan seems to be changing his tune somewhat. But, a return to 'Muldoonism' is certainly not the way to go. One thing is certain, things will get worse before they get better, remember my prognostication of tongue in cheek galloping inflation a few weeks ago? We are heading that way......keep watching this space....	Terry Porritt (14)
403457	2005-11-11 07:02:00	One minute they're going on about young people being unable to afford a house in a lot of places now, Auckland especially. The next they're trying to stop banks lending people a bigger %. Mental.	pctek (84)
403458	2005-11-11 08:22:00	Was it this thread (pressf1.co.nz) Terry? I agree, there are interesting times are ahead. There were some good points in the other thread (no point repeating them here) but looking at the housing market and Government intervention (which was the subject of the OP), isn't the traditional Kiwi 1/4 acre sacrosanct? The thought of Government intervention intrigues (yet horrifies) me. How could they intervene other than by enacting some peice of draconian legislation? (e.g. capital gains tax? but Helen dismissed that quick smart as 'political suicide') What options have they got? Pump up the OCR making it more attractive for overseas investors to lend their money here, which further hurts our exporters and makes imports look cheap? Unless my logic is wrong it doesn't make sense to increase the OCR. To put a damper on spending unearned dollars on import goods, he should put the OCR down. Billions would get sucked out of the NZ economy over a year or two, the dollar would weaken, our exports would increase, the imports would slow and I presume we'd be in for some good economic times. Is my logic wrong? So isn't this topic just a load of hot air? Maybe it is a sign of panic from the RB that things are not under control. Maybe Alan thinks he won't be getting his bonus this year and is trying to talk the housing market down. What with the price of oil, the continued demand for our dollar given the relatively high interest rates etc. there's nothing quite like whipping up a bit of nationalistic frenzy & fervour by taking aim at the Australian-owned banks and blaming the Auckland housing market.....but I'm ranting again...... If only we all bought NZ made (one of Rod Donalds pet projects) and invested locally (take note Super Fund managers) then our economy, and everything that goes with it, could only get stronger. My 2c A	andrew93 (249)
403459	2005-11-11 08:48:00	As an incomer from the UK, I'm struck by three differences re. the housing market. In the UK I was never aware of the property investment market. Certainly I never saw the constant advertising of seminars and books on the subject. Houses were advertised at a stated price, not BBO, BEO, tender etc. If you look in an estate agents window you know how much the house is going to cost you. And, finally, there is capital gains tax on property but that doesn't apply to the house you occupy. I understand that is what has been contemplated here. Martynz	martynz (5445)
403460	2005-11-11 09:01:00	We already have a tax on property profits. If you are in the business of buying and selling houses then any gains are taxable. But we don't have a capital gains tax per se. I don't see any issue with taxes on gains on investment properties - happy to debate this anyone but at the moment it's just my opinion. Although I don't know how far that would go to meeting the RB objectives. I think the other major difference you will see here martynz is the amount of time (or lack of it) that it takes to complete a property transaction. Plus we don't have the gazumping that you have in the UK. A	andrew93 (249)
403461	2005-11-11 17:32:00	A lot of investment in residential is by "loss attributing companies" i.e. your company buys the house, the loss after interest and rent received can be deducted from your income. Personal income $80,000 - $20,000 loss (from company) = $60,000 to be taxed. I know people who have accumalated $1,000,000's of rental properties on this technique.	KiwiTT_NZ (233)
403462	2005-11-11 18:19:00	Gazumping isn't all that common but I agree the NZ system is better in that respect. Please don't think I'm knocking Godzone - its the ignorant lazy estate agents I don't like. I'd love to see a fall in the housing market just to deprive those money grubbing bludgers of some of their loot. Do you know there is one in Wellington who drives round in a Humvee plastered with his agency's logo? I was naive enough to ask for details like room dimensions. "Oh, we don't supply those because if we got them wrong we could be sued." Can't be bothered to go round with a tape measure more like! Rant over, for now. Martynz	martynz (5445)
403463	2005-11-11 19:03:00	I know the company you refer to Marty, and agree their display of ostentatiousness is almost obscene, especially also their unbridled development greed. It would be interesting to know how much estate agents have contributed to house price inflation. Yet it wasn't always like that here. When we came 30 years ago, you never saw a housing for sale sign,(at least in Hutt Valley) it was as though sellers were ashamed and didn't want to let people know their houses were for sale. Agents took you around, had keys and let themselves in to a house, sometimes with the occupants still in bed :) We are certainly in strange times, maybe Bollard has seized upon housing as it seems to be the only goods following the old inflation adage of "too much money chasing too few goods". On the contrary at the moment we have too much money chasing too many low price Chinese imports. So the "buy New Zealand" doesn't really make very much sense nowadays, as we don't make much in the way of everyday goods. Back in the bad old days of import licences controls, almost everything was New Zealand made, and to boot, on the whole, quality, except for some fields, was quite good. Gareth Morgan argues that the taxes should increase: nbr.infometrics.co.nz	Terry Porritt (14)
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