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Thread ID: 63541	2005-11-13 09:10:00	Opinion on the state of NZ military/disarmed force	JSF_enthusiast (8536)	PC World Chat

Post ID	Timestamp	Content	User
404044	2005-11-15 20:28:00	We can't expect to have our allies defend us (which means die for us) if we aren't prepared to do what we can, which means having an armed force and making them available in the time of need, wherever that need maybe. Other countries would do it for us. As for getting invaded, to be truthful it never occurred to me that people in NZ would let it roll over them. Seems some of you cowards aren't worth defending. ditto Perhaps if it did happen we could have all the traitorous filth who wanted to accept it to raise their hands, then we could march you all at the enemy to draw their fire. Make 'em all flagbearers and stick 'em in the front line for cannon fodder like the old days	bartsdadhomer (80)
404045	2005-11-15 20:40:00	It won't be us surrendering, it would be our military masters and politicians. Once under new control, regretably we will need to obey their laws, whatever they may be. Some hardy souls will join the resistance, but the majority will remain and try to carry on with their lives. Paris was declared an open city, so it would not be damaged by military forces. We certainly would not want water, power and other essentials to be destroyed.	KiwiTT_NZ (233)
404046	2005-11-15 20:49:00	Every few months the old 9" gun battery on Wright's Hill in Wellington has an open day. All that hard work was probably great for morale and Fletcher's probably got paid well. If the Japanese navy had arrived does anyone think those 3 guns would have lasted longer than 5 mins? NZ is more likely to be taken over in a bankruptcy sale than an invasion.	PaulD (232)
404047	2005-11-15 20:51:00	Nice defeatist attitude, Are you French? Be a tragic waste for any mothers son to die defending the likes of you. I suggest next time you see some old soldiers you approach them and tell them you don't apreciate the sacrifice, and that if any invaders ever aproach that you will just hand them the keys when the killings begin. Repulsive and weak.	Metla (12)
404048	2005-11-15 21:07:00	I voted "Brash", who may have increased our Military spend. Too many Kiwi's voted for continuation of the "nanny-state", hence the situation with our military will continue. BTW: I served in the Airforce, and honour all the soldiers who fought for the freedoms we have now.	KiwiTT_NZ (233)
404049	2005-11-16 01:47:00	Look what this country could do during the war, and this is just a sample: ‘During the war years the industry was called upon for a tremendous war effort, which included the manufacture of wireless sets, Sten guns, Bren-gun carriers, bombs, grenades, fuses, aeroplane-fuel tanks, water-bottles, steel helmets, wire nails, barbed wire, ammunition, batteries, agricultural machinery and implements, the manufacture and maintenance of machinery used in essential production and services, the repair of vehicles and equipment from the Pacific War Zone, the building and repair of aircraft, repair of ships, the fitting of defensive armament and protective equipment to ships, and the building of minesweepers, Fairmile patrol boats, tow-boats, steel tugs, powered lighters, and barges of various types. In addition, it continued to meet civilian requirements of high priority.’ www.nzetc.org Now we don't even manufacture our own small arms ammuniton nowadays. It was quite an eye opener when I went to DSIR, to see many beautifully made high precision wartime gauges that were still around, including setting plugs and rings, ammunition gauges, bore gauges, all made in the DSIR workshops set up for the war effort. Those that I checked were accurate to stated size to within 0.000 020", that's 20 millions of an inch or 1/2 micron. I suppose we would be able to find someone capable of making pitch forks provided we could get the right grade of steel, and find someone to do the heat treatment. Or, we could send someone to Afghanistan to learn the ropes of setting up a cottage industry for the manufacture of AK 47s?	Terry Porritt (14)
404050	2005-11-16 02:28:00	But Terry, look at what Germany managed to produce during WWII . And their factories were being bombed (at least after the bombs started going closer than five miles to the "aiming point") massively . Their industrial production actually increased throughout the war . Get real, you "patriots" . We can't afford military toys . And they wouldn't be any use anyway . How many modern fighter planes do you think we can afford? How many hours could we afford to fly them each year? How often could we afford to replace them? How many missiles would you let the pilots fire off in practice (at $2500000-$1 . 5M each? How many ships would you have to defend our huge shoreline? How many missiles would the sailors be allowed toshoot off . Who is our enemy? Our "allies" won't defend us unless they perceive it to be in their interests to do so . And they've certainly got "free trade agreements" with any potential aggressors . They don't want our lamb or any other agricultural produce .	Graham L (2)
404051	2005-11-16 02:53:00	The new war is terror. Armies don't help you much. Airforce = waste of time, although something to take out low flying planes might be a good idea Navy = good idea for us, to rescue and stop ye poachers Army = apart from peacekeeping roles, pretty much a waste of $$$ Anyway, we have Winston Peters as running interference overseas ;)	gibler (49)
404052	2005-11-16 03:02:00	But Terry, look at what Germany managed to produce during WWII . And their factories were being bombed (at least after the bombs started going closer than five miles to the "aiming point") massively . Their industrial production actually increased throughout the war . Get real, you "patriots" . We can't afford military toys . And they wouldn't be any use anyway . How many modern fighter planes do you think we can afford? How many hours could we afford to fly them each year? How often could we afford to replace them? How many missiles would you let the pilots fire off in practice (at $2500000-$1 . 5M each? How many ships would you have to defend our huge shoreline? How many missiles would the sailors be allowed toshoot off . Who is our enemy? Our "allies" won't defend us unless they perceive it to be in their interests to do so . And they've certainly got "free trade agreements" with any potential aggressors . They don't want our lamb or any other agricultural produce . The only reason we haven't yet been invaded is because of our allies, If there were no reason not to then any number of countries would have over run this one . To say that we shouldn't contribute what we are able to, and that if we ever get attacked we should just give up amounts to treason, And is an insult to every life lost earning you and the rest of NZ our place of saftey and wealth . Cowards . I would rather die in an unwinnable battle .	Metla (12)
404053	2005-11-16 03:19:00	Ok then, if it is true we cant afford to maintain a small but capable combined defence force, then we will have to resort to clever secret weapons . As a starter I'd suggest promoting Personthingy as Chief of Defence Staff to establish 150 db audio setups around the coast, ready at the press of a button to play the latest NZ music at the invaders . See them run . . . . . :lol: As an aside, I found the sinking of The Wellington with all the flame and smoke somewhat distasteful, especially when I think of all the seamen both RN and merchant who died horribly in battle . And there were all those yelling and cheering and thinking it great .	Terry Porritt (14)
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