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Thread ID: 65872	2006-02-03 00:22:00	Trade Me rules question on Refunding bidders	sweetinnocence (7223)	PC World Chat

Post ID	Timestamp	Content	User
426750	2006-02-06 15:51:00	Were you using your motherboard or was it new?If it was new that means you cannot get it to work then you should be contacting the manufacturer for checking or replacement. If it was old and you cannot get it to work now that means the motherboard is faulty and you are selling a faulty motherboard by just saying one or the other may work.	Ninjabear (2948)
426751	2006-02-06 16:00:00	If the motherboard was new then you would probably be right but if its old then you are to blame but on the contrary why didn't you take it to the shop or manufacturer? Why did you just sold it if it was old and faulty? No offence but this is just my opinion. You may wish to explain yourself if you wish and I will in the other hand will try to think in your perspective No offence this is only my opinion. This is the way I like selling my stuff at trademe.I do not touch parallel imported products in hong kong even from a trusted store because if there were something wrong then it's going to be a major problem to get the thing fixed.Buying officially like Nokia Hk I can at least take it to Nokia Hk for repairing. I always alert my friends not to buy mobile phones online at trademe unless you ask the seller that they are indeed official with a official sticker This is how I sell things.I make sure my money is genuine and then i can say to myself I earned this money and I am happy with it.The buyer is happy. Then carry on next auction...	Ninjabear (2948)
426752	2006-02-06 21:04:00	You have a commendably up-front and honest approach NB, but your interpretation of the expression "as is' may be a bit wide of the mark. In NZ that term has been used for many years and simply means "with all faults and defects, whether immediately apparent or not". It was often used in combination with "where is" for motor vehicles. A seller with a non-running or poor condition vehicle would sell it "as-is where-is" and the buyer would make their own decision about the purchase, negotiate their price and assume all risks. If the wheels fell off or the gearbox collapsed within 100 metres of the seller's gate, that was the buyer's problem (unless, of course, he was wearing a patch in which case some negotiation might be required :D ). As-is is the only way to sell something that you cannot warrant as being in full working order, especially for computer equipment where obscure hardware defects may not show up until a particular combination of functions is required. As-is is actually saying to the buyer "this item may have defects that the seller doesn't know about". By the way, the Diputes Tribunal is not a Court as such and does not use Judges. It uses Referees, and more often than not they have no legal training at all. Their decisions are based on the facts at issue plus a healthy dose of common sense and kiwi "fair play". Cheers Billy 8-{) P.S. I don't know how you got to keep $100 of the buyer's money for the repair. As I read your post, you were the seller and found the fault before you sent it to the buyer. He should have got all of his money back.	Billy T (70)
426753	2006-02-06 21:36:00	If i were the judge I would probably order you to give the money back to the buyer because you didn't get the motherboard check out before listing it up for sale . Yes you may have written that you don't care if it's broken but the judge may feel that you that you have the intention of tricking the buyer . Some judge talk about documents evidence while other judge consider what their heart tells them as well as evidence . I dont blame her for putting a case against you and i don't blame you for defending . If i was the buyer I would do the same thing as he/she did . The judge might asked you . Why didn't you get it check out before listing the item online? If the motherboard was new you could've taken back to the shop and get it looked at they would replace it with a new one Eh! isn't it obvious, the cost of having it checked may well exceed its worth or it may be irreparable . I . E . a common reason for selling something "as is", your passing the risk to someone else, the buyer, who in turn is looking for a good deal in their favour and has apparently judged the risk threashold on this item at $75 . 00 . What if the purchase price had been $2 . 00, it had worked and far exceeded the buyers expectaions, much to their surprise . "Oh! I'm sorry, this as is item I bought for $2- is actually worth $75-, so here's the difference or you can have it back if you refund my $2-" Yeah right! Entirely irrelevant, that's not the situation at all because it's not new, it's obviously a 2nd hand "as is" item . The only issue here is, that the buyer got carried away or did not know the true worth of the item and the risk involved . Who's responsibilty is that, given that there is a Q & A facility on Trademe? Which I might add, is not available on most forms of traditional auction .	Murray P (44)
426754	2006-02-07 03:53:00	Anyway I still think that it wasn't appropriate to sell even if the value exceeded to fix it I rather throw it out then take a risk. Its like robbing someones money	Ninjabear (2948)
426755	2006-02-07 04:18:00	Anyway I still think that it wasn't appropriate to sell even if the value exceeded to fix it I rather throw it out then take a risk. Its like robbing someones money No, its selling gear not garenteed to work, Thats entirely different from stealng someones money, though your little scam where as you taxed someone $100 becuase they didn't want to complete the sale due to you not disclosing it was broken is highway robbery and you should be ashamed of yourself.	Metla (12)
426756	2006-02-07 04:21:00	Unsure if the 2nd hand product was working or not without taking responsibility. I certainly wouldn't sell something im insure of...	Ninjabear (2948)
426757	2006-02-07 08:35:00	Unsure if the 2nd hand product was working or not without taking responsibility . I certainly wouldn't sell something im insure of . . . That's a laudable attitude to have Ninjabear but, you can never guarantee 2nd hand goods* anyway, cripes, you can't even guarantee new goods will remain without fault, you can provide warrantees though . * You can, but you need to ensure they are of a value that's worthwhile to test and if the possibility arises, repair within the average cost of sale . i . e . you mark up the cost to reflect a warrantee or sell the warrantee separately .	Murray P (44)
426758	2006-02-07 09:40:00	My Sony products come with international Sony Warranty and with mp3 players etc .I offer 1 year warranty.They just send the parcel to me and I repost it back to hong kong.Nothing to worry about really.If you buy official stock highly unlikely it will be faulty. If there's something wrong with the creative player.i go back to creative and repair for free. Nokia mobiles are faulty I go back to Nokia Sony Ericsson hong Kong I go back to them Im unafraid that they are faulty as its nothing of a big deal.I just get it replace or repaired and send back to the buyer free of charge	Ninjabear (2948)
426759	2006-02-07 11:16:00	Eh! isn't it obvious, the cost of having it checked may well exceed its worth or it may be irreparable . I . E . a common reason for selling something "as is", your passing the risk to someone else, the buyer, who in turn is looking for a good deal in their favour and has apparently judged the risk threashold on this item at $75 . 00 . What if the purchase price had been $2 . 00, it had worked and far exceeded the buyers expectaions, much to their surprise . "Oh! I'm sorry, this as is item I bought for $2- is actually worth $75-, so here's the difference or you can have it back if you refund my $2-" Yeah right! Entirely irrelevant, that's not the situation at all because it's not new, it's obviously a 2nd hand "as is" item . The only issue here is, that the buyer got carried away or did not know the true worth of the item and the risk involved . Who's responsibilty is that, given that there is a Q & A facility on Trademe? Which I might add, is not available on most forms of traditional auction . Even if it's $2 I would do the refund . The auction did not state that the motherboard wasn't faulty just that he didn't know how to use it . He could've sold it for $1 for people to bid more . Did not actually state that the motherboard was faulty . If the motherboard was faulty would anybody buy it?I say this is a technique into tricking someone to bid . The buyer did not asked any question because of the way the auction was stated * as is* . Dont know if the motherboard was faulty and just stick it up for sale is the feeling I am getting I guess many may interpret it as right and in a way I agree with you guys . Everybody thinks differently . But I believe that there's some responsibility . . One didn't ask properly and one didnt write properly . No ending to this argument . See what your heart tells you thats for sure . !	Ninjabear (2948)
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