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Thread ID: 65852	2006-02-02 08:12:00	Do you support fluoridation of water supplies?	manicminer (4219)	PC World Chat

Post ID	Timestamp	Content	User
426502	2006-02-03 05:10:00	Where i'm staying at the moment, in Oxford, the water is treated, it stinks of chlorine or fluorine, i notice it when i run the tap, and i refuse to drink it until its been sitting in the jug for a while, and i've boiled it. It could well be an urban myth, but i boil that water to encourage the contaminants to evaporate off. You either need a distiller or a reverse osmosis system to remove chlorine and fluoride. Both can be costly to set up and run. You can get carbon filters to remove chlorine easily enough, but fluoride is quite expensive to remove. One of constant argument the proponents of fluoridation make is that it benefits the poorer sections of the community who can't afford dental care. But it's the same section of the community who are also disadvantaged if they want to remove these substances because they can't afford it.	manicminer (4219)
426503	2006-02-03 09:43:00	When it was first proposed in Dunedin decades ago, some people were so loudly opposed that it became a highly controversial issue - with wildly conflicting (& often wildly inaccurate) claims from both sides. I supported it because the experts at the Dental School here were in favour. I figured that if anyone knew what was best for kids' teeth, they did - as opposed to those claiming we'd all be slowly poisoned. After all, the dentists & their families would be drinking it too... When fluoridation was adopted, some diehards made a point of publicly distributing bottled water from other sources. That's all so long ago it barely gets a mention nowadays, apart from one crusader, and a whole generation has grown up here since. As we also have NZ's oldest Medical School, I'm sure those experts would've raised the issue by now if they'd any suspicions Dunedinites' health was suffering from fluoride overdose. Yes, we've had past problems with the water here - but for other reasons. I don't recall anyone knowledgeable complaining that it was fluoride which affected the taste. Nobody can be an expert on everything, so when it comes to this, I believe in trusting the overwhelming majority medical/dental experts - and I mean those on the spot, who'll be taking the same medicine.	Laura (43)
426504	2006-02-03 14:01:00	Fluoridation is one of the biggest medical blunders of all time. Ingested fluoride confers no benefit. The U.S. Centers for Disease Control reports that fluoride's benefits come about by topical application. Then the CDC goes on to say: "The prevalence of dental caries in a population is not inversely related to the concentration of fluoride in enamel, and a higher concentration of enamel fluoride is not necessarily more efficacious in preventing dental caries." SOURCE: Centers for Disease Control and Prevention. (2001). Recommendations for Using Fluoride to Prevent and Control Dental Caries in the United States. Morbidity and Mortality Weekly Report 50(RR14): 1-42. Modern science shows that fluoridation is ineffective, harmful to our health and a waste of money. For more info www.orgsites.com/ny/nyscof www.FluorideAction.Net	nyscof (9736)
426505	2006-02-03 19:00:00	When i go to Auckland and drink the processed muck you poor peasants have to drink i feel so sorry for you :p Flouride doesn't give it "that" taste. Thats chlorine. Too much of it. As for Aucklands water, tests have shown Auckland has the cleanest, safest water out of all the major cities. It makes me laugh these people that complain about council managed tap wtare and run off to buy bottled water. Which mostly comes out of a tap anyway like Kiwi Blue. Go back 100 years or so in large cities in the world and drink the water - then you'd have something to complain about. And watch an animal. My cats, while they do drink direct from the tap, prefer it when its been sitting around for ages, preferably outside, filled with leaves, slime and mud. Mmm, yummy.	pctek (84)
426506	2006-02-03 19:09:00	It makes me laugh these people that complain about council managed tap wtare and run off to buy bottled water. Which mostly comes out of a tap anyway like Kiwi Blue. Have to agree here, most bottled water is rubbish. For those health conscious who really want to drink 'natural' water, tt pays to do research on where the water actually comes from. Its far too easy to fall for marketing cons.	manicminer (4219)
426507	2006-02-03 19:21:00	Have to agree here, most bottled water is rubbish. For those health conscious who really want to drink 'natural' water, tt pays to do research on where the water actually comes from. Its far too easy to fall for marketing cons. You gotta read the label and understand the difference between spring vs filtered water etc.	andrew93 (249)
426508	2006-02-03 20:01:00	When it was first proposed in Dunedin decades ago, some people were so loudly opposed that it became a highly controversial issue - with wildly conflicting (& often wildly inaccurate) claims from both sides . I supported it because the experts at the Dental School here were in favour . I figured that if anyone knew what was best for kids' teeth, they did - as opposed to those claiming we'd all be slowly poisoned . After all, the dentists & their families would be drinking it too . . . When fluoridation was adopted, some diehards made a point of publicly distributing bottled water from other sources . That's all so long ago it barely gets a mention nowadays, apart from one crusader, and a whole generation has grown up here since . As we also have NZ's oldest Medical School, I'm sure those experts would've raised the issue by now if they'd any suspicions Dunedinites' health was suffering from fluoride overdose . Yes, we've had past problems with the water here - but for other reasons . I don't recall anyone knowledgeable complaining that it was fluoride which affected the taste . Nobody can be an expert on everything, so when it comes to this, I believe in trusting the overwhelming majority medical/dental experts - and I mean those on the spot, who'll be taking the same medicine . Laura has really hit the nail on the head here because I think alot of people (about 50% judging by this poll) will have a similar opinion - ie . "trust the experts - after all, they are experts and they know best" . Which is fair enough, I suppose . After all, if you can't trust 'experts', then who the hell can you trust? But it pays to remember that it was experts who told us for years that asbestos, lead, Thalidomide etc were safe . And these dentists pushing for water fluoridation are, in all probability, the same dentists who also consider it perfectly safe to fill your teeth with mercury, the second-most dangerous substance on Earth . With all due respect to dentists, they do a great job, but they are not toxicologists or neurochemists, and they are not qualified to pass scientific opinion on the safety of ingesting fluoride . Most dentists will recommend that you do not swallow toothpaste due to the fluoride content (I dont know about here but most countries there is a poison warning on toothpaste and recommendations that children under 6 do not use it) . If their opinion was really scientific, they would be considering the issue of dosage control . You can't control the dosage of people ingesting fluoride when you put it in the water supply . They would also be quoting toxicology studies that prove conclusively that this substance is safe . There aren't any such studies . They get away with saying it's safe and that there is no evidence to suggest it is harmful, only because people aren't dropping dead like flies . The effects of these toxins occur cumulatively - over a lifetime . And studies linking water fluoridation with reduction in dental caries are flaky at best . Have a look at the Ministry of Health website on fluoridation . They simply say that there is overwhelming evidence that it is effective . But they don't quote any studies . And rarely do authorities quote any studies - they don't have to because they know, by default, that the majority of the public won't question them . The British Govt were so desperate to force fluoridation that they funded a study that was supposed to conclusively prove the link . The study was done at York University in 2000 . The study itself actually couldn't find any links, but the report of the study by the govt and dental authorities doesn't reflect this at all . The fluoridation issue has become so ingrained into dental and government policy now, that studies contradicting the mainstream opinion find it very hard to get published into any notable journals (eg . British Journal of Medicine) . People with positions of power on Health Boards risk their jobs if they try and change this policy . Which is why they always utter the same old rhetoric when justifying their policy and answering the critics . It's worth noting that fluordiation has been adopted in several countries in the past but cancelled because of no proven health benefits, and concerns to public health . Recent countries of note that have staunchly opposed fluoridation include Switzerland, Sweden, Belgium, Korea and even China . In some parts of India where skeletal fluorosis has been endemic, there are de-fluoridation plants to actually remove the stuff from the water . Mainland Europe is notably absent from the list of coutries that fluoridate . The worldwide trend is to remove the stuff . Countries that persist with it are the US, Australia, New Zealand, UK, Israel (only with influence from the US) and Japan . All have a closely-knit medical/dental/political culture . To really appreciate the whole complicated issue of water fluoridation, it's worth having a read of the history ( . fannz . org . nz/text/world_history . htm" target="_blank">www . fannz . org . nz) . It's a story of full of suppression and lies . More than anything, I believe this is an ethical issue . Regardless of the argument on whether the stuff is effective for teeth or not, this is mass forced medication . The stuff isn't being added to clean or purify the water - it's being added because they are telling us it's good for our health . But their justification for this is based on very poor science . And when there is so much evidence to the contrary, why do these authorities persist on playing around with our water supplies when they should know there is no control over dosage whatsoever . http://www . fannz . org . nz http://www . AquaSafe . us Brilliant starter - like a powerpoint (note that toothpaste regs here not as strict as in the USA) . unicef . org/wes/fluoride . pdf" target="_blank">www . unicef . org A Unicef Report . fluoridealert . org/susheela . htm" target="_blank">www . fluoridealert . org Dr Susheela’s Affidavit www . fluoridealert . org www . slweb . org/bibliography Database of scientific articles . fluoridation . com/index . htm" target="_blank">www . fluoridation . com (canada) . com/pfpc/" target="_blank">bruha . com (a parents organisation) www . fluoridefree . com (Irish) http://www . fluorideresearch . org/ (journal Fluoride) www . npwa . freeserve . co . uk www . penweb . org/fluoride	manicminer (4219)
426509	2006-02-03 20:11:00	Although I like the idea of flouridation, I have to wonder how much our water filter filters it out? We just use a basic charcoal filter, which is supposed to take out most minerals etc, so I'm guessing it'll also take out the flouride? Nevermind... too late for me - my teeth are already stuffed :( (At least my missus loves me for my heart and brain, not my looks!) :thumbs:	Greg (193)
426510	2006-02-04 00:31:00	But it pays to remember that it was experts who told us for years that asbestos, lead, Thalidomide etc were safe . Exactly . And look how very very wrong they were . :( They get away with saying it's safe and that there is no evidence to suggest it is harmful, only because people aren't dropping dead like flies . The effects of these toxins occur cumulatively - over a lifetime . Well said, my thoughts exactly once again . Wasn't it in the news a couple of years ago that dentists were alarmed at the number of teenagers they were seeing with white spots on their teeth, or something like that? I am fairly sure they were pointing the finger at fluoride . The other thing that no one has mentioned is that a lot of children, whom the fluoride in water is aimed at, do not drink much water . At least the children I know don't . They are either drinking "juice" or fizzy drinks, not the stuff straight out of taps . My own children were brought up on water rather than "juice" and I rarely had or have fizzy drinks in the house - only for "treats" - so they are always going to the tap to quench their thirst . It amuses me when their friends ask for a drink - they always screw their noses up when handed a glass of good old pure Christchurch water because they never have it at home and are not used to it . That's another reason it is a complete waste of time fluoridated our water . They are going to rot their teeth sucking on juice and fizzy drinks anyway so what's the point?	FoxyMX (5)
426511	2006-02-04 00:38:00	Why not add fluoride to the water in those silly bottles? That would let the suppliers say it's "healthy, and medicinal". Then pharmacies should sell it -- the markup is already at about chemists' level. I wonder at people buying tap water at more than the price of petrol. (Especially when they buy this water at petrol stations ;).	Graham L (2)
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