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Thread ID: 66150	2006-02-13 02:47:00	Y2K - still the journos don't get it!	Tony (4941)	PC World Chat

Post ID	Timestamp	Content	User
429878	2006-02-13 03:58:00	A guy called Edward Yourdon wrote books about how the century transition would cause the collapse of civilisation . He had quite a good reputation as a programming consultant and theorist (structured programming, various other things) . Try "yourdon y2k" to Google . " . . . indirect), check whether it is OK and change it if it is not . This is a potentially massive task . Otherwise you get people showing up as 1 year old instead of 101, people being 100 years in debt, etc etc . . . " . Of course . These are still clerical problems . Why weren't there any sanity checks in the programmes? Why do people believe their computer output? I worked in scientific computing . I handled huge data sets from field data . Errors are the normal condition . But I checked everything . Wrong dates? No problem . One of my own computers did throw up a Y2K problem . I had a web server on it . The computer knew it was 2000 . That server put the year out as "19101" ("19" + string + string conversion iof the "year" byte) . I was amazed . That's not even "lazy programming"; it's no harder to do things like that right .	Graham L (2)
429879	2006-02-13 04:27:00	A guy called Edward Yourdon ... Why weren't there any sanity checks in the programmes? Why do people believe their computer output? Ed Yourdon - that's the guy. Sanity checks - of course there are. They are usually at the input verification stage. What we are talking about is past then - old data, and assumptions made about what constitutes "correct" data. If people aren't going to believe their computer output (with the usual caveats about not believing "the computer is never wrong") then why are we using computers at all? - and the answer to that is that modern commerce of any scale could not operate without the speed of information processing that computers give us. I still don't see how this is a "clerical" problem. I infer that to mean that an error can be fixed by manual alteration/annotation. How do you do that with may thousands (or even millions) of data records that may then subsequently be used in further processes without human intervention? I'm not saying that the IT industry was blameless or not to at least some extent the author of it's own problems. But nevertheless there was a problem, the IT industry fixed it, and has never got the credit it deserved for doing so.	Tony (4941)
429880	2006-02-13 04:42:00	I've been reading the comp.risks newsgroup for a long time. The IT "industry" makes many mistakes. Sometimes the mistakes are fixed. There's not usually any special credit given for fixing mistakes in any activity. In some activities it's considered to be normal to fix errors. ;) But my main point was that the problem was overstated. It was exploited.	Graham L (2)
429881	2006-02-13 04:44:00	But my main point was that the problem was overstated. It was exploited.I don't think it was overstated. I'm sure it was exploited by some people.	Tony (4941)
429882	2006-02-13 05:21:00	I've been reading the comp.risks newsgroup for a long time. The IT "industry" makes many mistakes. Sometimes the mistakes are fixed. There's not usually any special credit given for fixing mistakes in any activity. In some activities it's considered to be normal to fix errors. ;) But my main point was that the problem was overstated. It was exploited. I agree Graham L. I know of one business that went out and bought new computers because someone else told them they needed to, when I had checked the problem and all they had to do is on first boot of the centry set the date. What annoyed me is they didn't buy them from me. I do agree that there were a lot of databases that need reprogramming to fix the problem and if it hadn't been done in time it could have been very interesting.	mikebartnz (21)
429883	2006-02-13 06:08:00	I don't think it was overstated . I'm sure it was exploited by some people . Just like virus and anti spyware stuff being exploited by computer repair people now . Hell look at the nauseating Xtra ad at the top of this forum (note to self, reinstall adblock) "SECURITY BREACH" . . . now send money . They're no better than your average popup on some portal site . PCWorld should vet their advertising better .	ninja (1671)
429884	2006-02-13 10:01:00	I do agree that there were a lot of databases that need reprogramming to fix the problem and if it hadn't been done in time it could have been very interesting.Not only databases - chips in embedded systems such as power generation, hospital equipment. The company I worked for spent the best part of 2 years and literally millions making sure all it's mission-critical systems were OK, and also some systems that were due to be replaced before 2000 - just in case the redevelopment slipped. One of the reasons why this all happened is that people were writing code in the 1970s and were confident that the system would be obsolete well before 2000, so didn't take Y2K into account. Murphy's Law struck, and these "obsolete" systems were if not going strong, still lumbering along 20-30 years later. To make a personal skite, one thing I am quite proud of is that in about 1980 I was responsible for initiating the design of a series of date manipulation routines to be used in new systems development company-wide, and I insisted then that they all be Y2K (and indeed 19th/20th century too (think someone who was born in 1896 and was still a company pensioner in 2000)) compliant. [/SKITE] :cool: :cool:	Tony (4941)
429885	2006-02-13 22:55:00	You realise they don't care. The same way they trash police, report half stories, etc etc etc. Lack of communication or understanding come in here possibly. Where do you think the news media in general get their stories from? Do they just make it up or assume a certain thing happend? I would refer you to a story I saw last night on a link from my home page www.nzcity.co.nz (http://www.nzcity.co.nz/) where a Japanese woman had been hit by a cyclist and had died as a result. Now I see on the same NZ City page that the lady concerned collided with the cyclist and is still alive. Link here (www.nzherald.co.nz) Now is this the fault of the media "NZ Herald" and or "NZCity" for reporting or the Police once again getting it wrong? Back to the original post. I wrote programs in COBOL and Assembler from about 1972 - 1975 and the Systems Analysts at that time did not even think about what might happen in 2000. I may say that it did not occur to me either. We were all rather concerned in those days to save Bytes rather that K/Bytes and what was a Megabyte far less a Gigabyte.	Sweep (90)
429886	2006-02-14 02:25:00	a Japanese woman had been hit by a cyclist and had died as a result. Now I see on the same NZ City page that the lady concerned collided with the cyclist and is still alive.To be fair I think it has been established that there was a Police communication problem there, so both reports were probably technically correct. Back to the original post. I wrote programs in COBOL and Assembler from about 1972 - 1975 and the Systems Analysts at that time did not even think about what might happen in 2000. I may say that it did not occur to me either. We were all rather concerned in those days to save Bytes rather that K/Bytes and what was a Megabyte far less a Gigabyte.I rest my case... :)	Tony (4941)
429887	2006-02-14 07:14:00	PCWorld should vet their advertising better. Saying no to telecom is akin to saying no to the mafia.	Greven (91)
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