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Thread ID: 66864	2006-03-09 06:17:00	HERALD Letter 06.03.06: The concealed cost of broadband	legod (4626)	PC World Chat

Post ID	Timestamp	Content	User
436968	2006-03-10 07:33:00	Worth pointing out,12 . 5% of NZ live in OZ and increasing,yet T still thinks it's the way to go . I don't get it? :confused: Of course Oz has done better than NZ, they didn't have to suffer from Roger Douglas or Ruth Richardson . And, as Met indicated in a round about way, they have had much stronger unions . One of my sons and his family are doing very well over there too . :)	Terry Porritt (14)
436969	2006-03-10 08:08:00	I don't get it? :confused: Of course Oz has done better than NZ, they didn't have to suffer from Roger Douglas or Ruth Richardson . And, as Met indicated in a round about way, they have had much stronger unions . One of my sons and his family are doing very well over there too . :) I knew it would be Douglas's fault That's what we want stronger unions,plenty of protection for our scientists,more cushy jobs at the DSIR,oh when was paradise lost?	Cicero (40)
436970	2006-03-10 09:14:00	Reply regarding the original topic: Personally, I think a good compromise would be that ADSL users pay for line maintenance, etc . . . After all, ADSL users use the telephone line, right? Even on our phone bill, the line maintenance part has already been sorted out . "Homeline rental" shouldn't be compulsary though, after all, if I want just internet, shouldn't I pay just for the data component + maintenance for the line I use? But of course, Telecom would never ever provide for this, unless they're forced by the government .	jesseycy (1046)
436971	2006-03-10 20:40:00	No, you should read Telecom terms and conditions: www.telecom.co.nz The optional wiring maintenance charge you pay with your phone bill only covers this: "We provide an optional standard wiring maintenance service which covers the cost of fixing, during our normal fault service hours, most faults in the telephone sockets and wiring inside your home which are covered by the service. We will provide this service unless you tell us you no longer want it." It does not cover costs associated with lines from exchange to your home, upkeep, maintenance and rates on exchanges, or any of the equipment in the exchanges either phones or ADSL. As I previously said, we require cost break downs for the different line services in order to make knowledgeable comments. We dont even know what the cost factor in our ADSL charges is for Telecoms contribution to the Southern Cross cable. In fact it seems no one knows anything, and Telecom aren't saying, AFAIK.	Terry Porritt (14)
436972	2006-03-11 00:30:00	Teleocm own about half of the Southern Cross cable company. At one stage, they had written off their investment in that company, because of its losses. It's only now starting to make a profit. The interest on the capital cost of the cable is huge. In the days of electromechanical exchanges, a leased data line was quite expensive, even if it was just jumpered on the frames rather than going through the selectors, so it wasn't using most of the exchange equipment. That might not have been fair, but if you had to ask how much it cost you couldn't afford it. (I once asked how much it would cost to have copper all the way to one of our sites, rather than the mixed fibre/copper we had. It was enough (per km per fortnight) that we couldn't afford it. :( ) In a digital exchange, I suspect that an ADSL line is using more dedicated equipment than a speech-only line. So probably it should cost more. :D	Graham L (2)
436973	2006-03-11 00:41:00	. . . . In a digital exchange, I suspect that an ADSL line is using more dedicated equipment than a speech-only line . So probably it should cost more . I strongly suspect you are right Graham . There may well be an element of internal cross-subsidy for ADSL . If the 'naked DSL' people are given what they want, they may well find they have to pay more than home phone line rental .	Terry Porritt (14)
436974	2006-03-11 10:02:00	While we're on the cost of broadband, here's one more query I have . . . Why don't we have different prices, for people living in rural and city areas? One of the most popular justifications around for our caps and speeds and prices is that we are sparsley populated, unlike places like London or Tokyo, and getting a line all the way to a small house in the West Coast is quite expensive . Well, why don't we have different pricing then? Maybe services in Auckland should cost half that of someone on the West Coast . After all, it's fair, right? People live in bigger cities for the increased choice, the variety, the competition and hence lower prices . City dwellers pay more rates, breathe in more pollution, endure more traffic, and pay for much more expensive housing . Surely, if you decide to live in the deep woods somewhere in NZ where land is cheap, you should bear at least part of an increased cost to get broadband???	jesseycy (1046)
436975	2006-03-11 18:57:00	It isn't necessarily the cost of pumping electrons down longer length of wire, it is the cost of installing the wire . Telecom were going to charge exhorbitantly for installation in way out places, but there was a bit of outcry, so they reduced charges to about $500, whereas in town I think it's about $70 . Same story with power lines . So it does happen as you say . Cicero would willingly agree with your market forces outlook . :thumbs: I tend more towards social cross-subsidy theory :) But then . you are not going to get ADSL way out in the wop-wops by phone line any way, you'd be lucky to get 28kbps dial up .	Terry Porritt (14)
436976	2006-03-11 19:39:00	I am sure T. that you would be a free market man,if you could see it in operation somewhere. Due to the distortions that arise with advent of the welfare state and big government you are not going to see it. A little Sunday read of what Cic ponders. www.mises.org	Cicero (40)
436977	2006-03-11 21:18:00	I am sure T. that you would be a free market man,if you could see it in operation somewhere. Due to the distortions that arise with advent of the welfare state and big government you are not going to see it. A little Sunday read of what Cic ponders. www.mises.org Interesting, I do go along with those ideas up to a limited extent, but like any other ideology they have to be tempered with realistic pragmatism. Did you know that Ludwig Von Mises had a younger brother, Richard, who was a scientist, famous in the fields of fluid mechanics, aerodynamics, and stress analysis? I can give an example from 1970s UK that directly relates to jesseycy's concept of charging on the user pays/free market concepts. The same thing is happening here. It concerns the small Dorset village where we lived. Even then before Maggie Thatcher, market forces and user pays were coming along, even under the evil machinations (truly evil, not joking!) of the Wilson/Callaghan red not pink government of the day. It concerned a nation wide outcry about having to pay cross-subsidised main drainage charges by those on septic tanks/cess-pits. The House of Lords ruled the charge did not have to be payed if you were not on main drainage. The result was cess pit emptying charges rose from 50p a load to £10 a load (or was it £5?). Of course this was far far more in a year than the main drainage charge averaged over everyone. So those who bleated about not having to pay main drainage now bleated about the market forces cost of cess pit empying. Prior to that, the local council policy was to extend main drainage free of charge. I think there was a nominal connection fee, but the cost if you lived in the country area was the same as being connected in a town. But that was not the only thing. Local schools were closed, local post offices and other facilities were closed, just like happened here. So by the 1980s, in our village all the country locals from generations back had left, and the village had become home only to the wealthy who could afford to live there, and it was just a commuter dormitory. This was in the Wimborne Rural District Council area.	Terry Porritt (14)
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