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Thread ID: 66898	2006-03-10 10:13:00	Wrist rsi - anybody experienced it?	Greg (193)	PC World Chat

Post ID	Timestamp	Content	User
437219	2006-03-11 22:04:00	Yes RSI or whatever they call it now. I get it occasionally but I am 73 and spend too much time on the computer as its about the only manual work I can do these days. But as a teenager and in my early 20s I spent a huge amount of time typing and NEVER knew anybody who had problems. The reasons were simple. Keyboards were more angled. They required more effort, which included different actions like the return "handle' which made us do other actions. We NEVER rested our wrists - our hands were always in the air. And of course unlike computers we needed to stop fairly regularly to change paper, do some filing, release keys that had got crossed in mid air etc. To avoid RSI - never ever use a wrist guard or rest. Keep your hands high. Do have regular breaks - when teaching computer skills I always insisted my students took a 5 - 10 min break every hour. Very difficult to enforce this but it is good practice. Don't work on a laptop if your desktop is available - laptop keyboards now they all have pressure pads, are unbelievably badly designed. An old laptop I had with no pad had its keys at the front where they should be - so much better to use. Finally ration your use of the mouse - don't ask me how - as I mention above I also get RSI Tom	Thomas01 (317)
437220	2006-03-12 01:17:00	So lets make a fortune, Thomas. We'll convert Imperial 66 typewriters and sell them as computer keyboards. The IBM 1620 used an IBM electric typewriter (typebar model., not golfball) as its console device. PDP8s and 11s used Teletypes as consoles, too. Clatter, clatter, clatter, but no RSI. :D	Graham L (2)
437221	2006-03-12 04:15:00	Good on yer Graham - how did you know it was an Imperial typewriter I used? I believe incidentally that typewriter is the longest word you can type on one line of the keyboard. Funny you should mention electric typewriters but now I do recall that in 1949 or thereabout Miss Topping in our office was issued with an electric typewriter. I never liked it - no real feel. Not compared to our Imperials. And the keyboard was almost flat like our keyboards are now. Then I also remember poor Miss T having a sore arm - probably RSI - none of us thought of that at the time. I would ask her the eventual outcome but she would be 107 years old by now. Tom	Thomas01 (317)
437222	2006-03-12 09:13:00	Just at the tail end of round one with RSI myself... as mentioned earlier in the thread, the best thing you can do is go see your GP. OOS is so broad that it cant really be covered completely in a forum thread. Your GP will no doubt recommend some physio/accupuncture, don't ignore this advice, just do it. You may also be prescribed some anti-inflamms like diclofenac - pay attention to what your GP says - dicolofenac can cause havoc with your bowel, in which case you just switch to diclofenac gel (aka voltaren) The physio will show you a few stretches to do - do them. It might take a few visits, but the best thing I did was pay attention to my physiotherapist. Next, get yourself a visit from an occupational/workplace therapist. You'll be amazed at just how little you knew about how to sit correctly at a desk. You can read about ergonomics till the cows come home, and I did, and I thought I knew, but the best way is to be shown. Again, pay attention to what the therapist says. I am now of the opinion that anyone working in an office environment should be getting basic ergonomics training as a prerequisite of employment. Prevention is better than the cure - who would have thought? For normal computer usage, get yourself a 3M ergonomic mouse. To give you an idea of how good they are - with an average intellimouse, I could work for about 5 minutes before experiencing sharp pains up my forearm. With the 3M ergo mouse I could go about 8 hours straight before experiencing dull pains creeping in. Keep your normal mouse plugged in if you game though.. the 3M mouse isnt good for gaming ;) I've been using ergo keyboards religiously for 10 years now, so that's moot for me. They take no time at all to adjust to if you're a touch typist, so give yourself a treat and get yourself one. Finally, install some RSI software - workrave is a free open source one - and set it to force breaks. I have mine set to a microbreak (30secs) every 15mins and a break (10mins) every hour. After all of that, go have a follow up visit with your GP and let him/her know what you've done and any changes you've experienced. They'll probably ask a few more questions, do some on the spot tests and give you some feedback. After doing all the stretches suggested by my physio, paying attention to what the occupational therapist said and integrating that knowledge, installing and using RSI software and adhering to my micro breaks and breaks, the pain receeded back from my entire forearm to just my wrist. While the 3M mouse does reduce the horrible mouse-camber significantly, it does still promote wrist twisting. Anyway, a couple of days ago I had a follow up GP visit which consisted of a partial physical testing my flexibility, forearm and hand strength, reflexes and coordination, and it looks like the damage is relatively non permanent. :) The GP noted that now I am "empowered with the knowledge" required to reduce the symptoms, I can actively build habits that prevent a recurrance. The other recommendation given to me by both the physio and my gp is that I take up yoga or pilates. I'm trying to schedule in some time, shift work is a bit of a bugger like that. You might like to consider something similar. So, unfortunately while I am 'empowered' now, it's not knowledge that can really be imparted via text - you really need to go out and learn it for yourself.	whetu (237)
437223	2006-03-12 09:40:00	So, unfortunately while I am 'empowered' now, it's not knowledge that can really be imparted via text - you really need to go out and learn it for yourself.I agree 100% with what Whetu has said, especially this last line. Go see a doctor, and do something about it before it's too late. Mike.	Mike (15)
437224	2006-03-12 10:04:00	I have been thinking about sorting out my ergonomics at work but I think if I complain about it they might fire me or something seeing I'm on a 6month 'trial' period. I've only just started, can't really rock the boat too much can I? I mean the desk &/or chair is just at a crap height. My arm is well below the desk so not at the right height, and I'm reaching up sortof. The chair can't be raised any higher so the armrest on it is below the desk as well. I was getting a sore wrist for the mouse hand, under the forearm it sortof a dull pain. I have sortof managed to make it go away for the meantime by bringing my mouse pad into work which has a gel wrist rest on it.	E|im (87)
437225	2006-03-12 13:34:00	I have been thinking about sorting out my ergonomics at work but I think if I complain about it they might fire me or something seeing I'm on a 6month 'trial' period. I've only just started, can't really rock the boat too much can I? I mean the desk &/or chair is just at a crap height. My arm is well below the desk so not at the right height, and I'm reaching up sortof. The chair can't be raised any higher so the armrest on it is below the desk as well. I was getting a sore wrist for the mouse hand, under the forearm it sortof a dull pain. I have sortof managed to make it go away for the meantime by bringing my mouse pad into work which has a gel wrist rest on it. Without knowing too much about your circumstance/company I'll generalise ask your employer what their policy is, I think you'll find they have to abide with OSH regulations. The Department of Labour may also be interested in getting involved. (OSH is part of DOL, I'm meaning more like ERS - Employment Relations etc) Your work probably has a dedicated OSH representative - a colleague who looks after OSH/ACC related matters, usually someone HR-ish, go have a chat with them. Failing that, just do the best you can by yourself - RSI software like workrave, if adhered to, should make a significant difference. IANAL but any attempt by your employer to prevent you practising anti-OOS methods is probably illegal (see: OSH, DOL, hell even 'causing bodily harm/injury') Get in touch with OSH/ERS/DOL for advice if you're unsure, they're pretty good to deal with, which says a lot, being govt departments and all ;)	whetu (237)
437226	2006-03-13 00:03:00	I am right-handed and have been using my left-hand for my mouse for over 10 years and never experienced any OOS (RSI) issues. It took me only a day to adjust to using my left-hand for my mouse and after using computers for over 20 years, this change must have helped me avoid any problems.	KiwiTT_NZ (233)
437227	2006-03-13 07:11:00	I used to have it in the forearm. It was excruciating using a mouse. Then I had a ski accident and was referred to a physiotherapist by my Dr. He fixed my ski injury, then I asked him for advice on my RSI. The first thing he did was to get me to throw away the Voltaren. Then he got me to photograph my workplace. Once he looked at the photo, he immediately figured out why I had a problem. I had the mouse on the edge of the desk and was moving it using my wrist and fingers. He changed that so that now I have my whole forearm resting on the desk and I move the mouse using my shoulder muscles. My wrist and forearm muscles are not used. Within weeks the RSI had gone and hasn't come back in 2 years.	TideMan (4279)
437228	2006-03-13 07:55:00	I used to have it in the forearm. It was excruciating using a mouse. Then I had a ski accident and was referred to a physiotherapist by my Dr. He fixed my ski injury, then I asked him for advice on my RSI. The first thing he did was to get me to throw away the Voltaren. Then he got me to photograph my workplace. Once he looked at the photo, he immediately figured out why I had a problem. I had the mouse on the edge of the desk and was moving it using my wrist and fingers. He changed that so that now I have my whole forearm resting on the desk and I move the mouse using my shoulder muscles. My wrist and forearm muscles are not used. Within weeks the RSI had gone and hasn't come back in 2 years.Interesting. If you can get used to working like that I can see why it'd help a lot. Strangely it's a technique I was taught in playing squash - to use the wrist a lot less than a full shoulder movement. it improved my game-play a lot.	Greg (193)
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