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Thread ID: 67054	2006-03-15 19:12:00	Diesel Car - Yes or no?	Mike (15)	PC World Chat

Post ID	Timestamp	Content	User
438381	2006-03-16 00:55:00	[QUOTE=Mike Toyota Hilux Surf 2.4l turbo diesel 1991 190k[/QUOTE] It is old and it is high K's. Bugger the service history, even if it was NZ new it has given its best and it's all downhill from here. If it was an import you could probably add another 50-100,000 Ks and move it much closer to the bottom of the hill. Safety won't be that good either, the road handling isn't up to much, and they don't crumple well. It might have suited Crumpy & Scotty, but I'd look for something else, like a late 90's early 2000's car or SW with airbags, especially if you have a family to carry. Cheers Billy 8-{)	Billy T (70)
438382	2006-03-16 01:05:00	Agreed . The Road User Charges for a truck are much higher than for a diesel car because of its gross laden weight . Foxy makes a good point about user friendliness . I drive distances and off-road so I love my truck (deep breath to avoid rave :D ) But my wife finds the truck a pain around town . Parking at schools, shops, and supermarkets is difficult compared with a car .	Winston001 (3612)
438383	2006-03-16 01:22:00	RUC is not a lot more for truck (under 3 ton) compared to a car (about $2 per 1000km afaik) . however the RUC for under 3 ton have gone up a lot while over 3 ton hasn't . also don't forget you need RUC for the load INCLUDING TRAILERS ! it also applies to petrols, any petrol with over 3 ton gross (including trailer and load) requires RUC . however the cops have been turning a blind eye to the petrols but NOT THE DEISELS . so if you tow a boat etc in the weekends you need a 4-7 . 5 ton RUC which costs even more, petrols the cops seem to let them get away with it . don't forget you need an HT for over 4 . 5 ton gross (includeing trialer and load which is easy done, 2 ton suv + 1 ton load + 2 . 5 ton trailer with load = 5 . 5 ton) also rego for deisels is dearer (go figure that one ! ) lately petrol prices have dropped a few cents but deisel is the same ! % wise deisel has gone up more than petrol ! ! ! ! one thing to watch with SUV's (i have the typical tradesman van so i've struck this a lot) is carparks often have a low ceiling which you can't fit into ! Billy is about right with the milage . mates surf had 150,000 on the clock when they replaced the crack head . the motor had around 300,000kms of wear on the motor . BTW garanteed milage dosn't mean it isn't wound back . it only means it wasn't wound back when it landed at NZ ports, what happens after that is a different story . a person on the surf site had a "garanteed milage" surf that was wound back by the dealer . the dealer was prosocuted and had to pay the difference in value .	tweak'e (69)
438384	2006-03-16 01:31:00	lately petrol prices have dropped a few cents but deisel is the same ! % wise deisel has gone up more than petrol ! ! ! ! yes but the power you get from a liter of diesel is far in excess of what you get from petrol . I spend less pushing a 3 . 5 ton truck about than i do with a petrol vehicle .	personthingy (1670)
438385	2006-03-16 01:37:00	The amount of energy in both fuels is pretty near equal. The diesel engine is more efficient, thanks to the high compression ratio.	Graham L (2)
438386	2006-03-16 01:43:00	Ha! I stand corrected, although at the end of the usual process, more energy is available to push a diesel vehicle per liter of fuel, than from a liter of petrol.	personthingy (1670)
438387	2006-03-16 01:45:00	yes and no. the RUC kills a lot of the gain from deisel. mates pertol surf didn't cost much more than the deisel surf did in actual fuel but the deisel had to pay RUC as well so it ends up being dearer, exspecially when you add maintaince cost into it. deisels are more effecient BUT your normally running a motor 2-3x the size of the petrol ie 2.4 petrol vers 3 litre turbo (turbo roughly makes it 30-40% larger so a 3 litre turbo is approx a 4-5 litre motor)	tweak'e (69)
438388	2006-03-16 02:21:00	In August 2004, the government introduced low sulphur diesel, requiring all diesel fuel sold in NZ to have no more than 500 parts per million sulphur in diesel . In August 2005, this dropped to 50 parts per million . I'm not a mechanic, or a chemist, but I'm told that the reduction of the sulphur content could cause problems with fuel pump seals, potentially leading to leaks . The solution is to be found with a mechanic, who can replace these seals . Problems may increase with the age of the vehicle, with older injector pumps requiring additional repair and maintenance . It's similar to the problem that emerged when lead was removed from high-octane petrol in 1996 - older cars needed valve seal lubricant added to their fuel tank when refuelling . However, the sulphur issue had more to do with older engines being manufactured for older diesel fuel with the higher sulphur content, and needing a minor modification to handle the new fuel . Consumer Online ( . consumer . org . nz/newsitem . asp?docid=2475&category=News&topic=Low-sulphur%20diesel%20causing%20problems" target="_blank">www . consumer . org . nz) has an article about it . Caltex ( . caltex . co . nz/products/changes_petrol_diesel . asp" target="_blank">www . caltex . co . nz) also some information . Hope this helps Well . . . . . here I am again . . . my screen name on my webpage is Dieseldoc46 . . . . and 40+ years in automotive repair, I have heard all these vague rumors and cottage opinions before . First . . . low sulfur fuel is better than higher sulfer . Why? Sulphur in solution with water forms sulfuric acid . . . which ruins seals and chuckles the precision surfaces in the injectors and the injection pump . . . goodbye one bad rumor about fuel . High sulfur fuel is polluting . . and actually causes damage to eyes, lungs, any mucus membranes in your body . . . and forms . . guess what? sulfuric acid again . . . even causing acid rain that kills vegetation and ruins aquatic life (fish-type things) in lakes and rivers . It rots your exhaust system and ruins the chrome bumpers and will etch the windshield of your vehicle . Second . . Diesel #2 with at least some parafin wax . . is where the power of the diesel shows up . . . parafin has a lot of calories that push the pistons that rotate the crank that turn the gears in the transmission that rotates the driveshaft that turns the ring and pinion gears in the differential that turns the wheels that make contact with the road . . . simple? Yup! As far as fuel mileage . . diesels do it better . . . they are more efficient with the fuel they get because of the higher compression and the fact that the fuel still expands as the piston travel to the bottom of the stroke . . . not like gasoline that "snaps" off and the piston just coasts the rest of the way after a small explosion . Higher combustion tempertures results in better fuel mileage and lower exhaust temps as the heat is more efficiently used . Take this little test: Grab hold of the exhaust manifold of a diesel engine that has run for at least 15 minutes at idle . . . uncomfortable, but you will not lose any skin over it or suffer too much from heat . . . . then grab the manifold of a gasoline engine run the same time . . . if you can get near to it . . . it will burn your skin off clear thru to the bones and there's no mistaking that it is a lot hotter than a diesel's . Why? Heat conversion efficiency, that's why . The heat was used propelling the engine, not being pumped out the exhaust as waste heat . . . and wasted dollars as that is just fuel getting dumped into the atmosphere . Gasoline has to fire the plugs BEFORE top-dead center, to make sure the fuel will be burning by the time the piston starts down; diesels inject the fuel a few degrees AFTER top-dead center to push the piston more efficiently . . . . . . remember we are talking glorified heat pumps here . . . that's what an engine really is . Here's the rule of thumb as to caloric content to fuels . . . if they are thicker they usually have more therms . . . and diesel is thicker in viscosity to gasoline . . ergo . . . more heat potential and greater efficiency . Now let's debunk the Leaded fuel v unleaded garbage . . . . . . Lead (tetraethyl lead) was an additive that provided SOME lubrication to the valve seats . . . not the oil seals! . . . and this stupid rumor was the bane of the newer fuels from the start . It was and still is total crappola . . . What lead did for a gasoline engine was to raise the octane level of poorer fuels to keep engines from knocking themselves to death . Lead lowers the flamefront propagation to such a good extent that compression ratios of 14:1 were pretty useable in the hot rod years after WWII until about 1973 here in the US . Then with the advent of unleaded regular and the new octane rating schedule (R+M/2) we got lowered compression rations as the norm . . . around 8 or 9:1 now . What really wrinkles my shorts is this insistance that lead performs any seal protection at all . . . it does not! Since my tenure as a mechanic, I have not found any pre-unleaded engines suffering for performance or longevity of usefullness from using lead-free without any additives at all . There is one caveat to this . . . the old air cooled VW (Bug) engines . . which where hanging together by a wing and prayer anyway with no stabilizing water cooling to protect them from localized hotspots (#3 cylinder especially, the one with the oil cooler blocking the airflow to it) . Well, the VW aircooled engines burned up . . but this might've just been from the newer stringent rules of emissions in California, and then later, the rest of the US on a Federal basis . The ol' engines could not run that lean and that retarded to live . . . they died or seized or burned holes in the pistons or dropped valves into the cylinders . It was not the lead-free that caused it . . just an engine on the ratty edge of implosion that got tweaked over the top with the new rules . Rumors killed as you wait . . . just ask . . . . . . :cool:	SurferJoe46 (51)
438389	2006-03-16 02:41:00	I wouldn't touch a 2.4L turbo with a barge pole. They have a habit of cracking heads, you'd be far better off with the 3 litre version. I've put 50,000 km on my Surf in the last 17 months and it still runs as sweet as the day I bought it (100k when I got it). Just keep up with the servicing. Great info from Surfer Joe. :thumbs:	Sb0h (3744)
438390	2006-03-16 02:44:00	I wouldn't touch a 2.4L turbo with a barge pole. They have a habit of cracking headsYou are thinking of non OHC	Rob99 (151)
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