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Thread ID: 67822	2006-04-07 00:26:00	is it legal to sell imported cell phones in NZ?	bizzack (7739)	PC World Chat

Post ID	Timestamp	Content	User
444630	2006-04-11 18:57:00	<sigh> I give up. Clearly I know nothing about this subject. </sigh> You tried more than I ever would - your posts were clear, concise and worded so those not in your industry would understand......so I thought. I think possibly the $$ signs in front of their eyes may be preventing them from understanding your point. As the old saying goes a little bit of knowledge can be a dangerous thing	sam m (517)
444631	2006-04-11 20:25:00	I noticed that there were a few exceptions involving appliances that also used gas. Ones that came to mind was a gas hob with a single electric element and/or electric ignition. Also the classic 12V/230V/gas camping fridge. Would these not require declaration of compliance? Is import quality control covered somewhere else?	personthingy (1670)
444632	2006-04-12 01:07:00	Plod, you question GF at your peril ! The way this thread has evolved indicates that the problem is more generic than just electrical compliance with standards. It should be obvious to anyone with any brains at all that a manufacturers warranty label has no relationship with conformance to a standard whatsoever, unless it also specifically mentions standards conformity. I used to test, measure and calibrate all sorts of things to the relevant standards, from micrometers to wooden extending ladders for the local power board, to machine tools, the list is endless. A warranty is just that, nothing more, nothing to do necessarily with whether a product does or does not comply with a specification.	Terry Porritt (14)
444633	2006-04-12 01:25:00	Plod, you question GF at your peril ! I did not question GF, I was just asking what his background was because of his huge knowledge base :p	plod (107)
444634	2006-04-12 01:44:00	I did not question GF, I was just asking what his background was because of his huge knowledge base :p Right :) I think formidable is the word I'd use to descibe GF, formidably omniscient :cool: [The German word for omniscient is Allwissenheit, all-knowing, I like that]	Terry Porritt (14)
444635	2006-04-12 02:27:00	My background would best be described as one who has "friends in low places". Terry understands well, as do others, the issue and it's importance here for ongoing consumer safety. It's not as if Ninjabear/Tammy9 is just selling the odd secondhand device, presently they have at least 19 devices with chargers for sale on TradeMe alone, one device states it has a wall charger and a "NZ Plug Adapter", which to me indicates that the "wall charger" is definitely not designed for NZ or likely to have NZ compliance, or it would not need a "NZ Plug Adapter". I can only strongly suggest that the law is followed. Graham L has hinted at the consequences, they are both very real and very likely to occur ... If you want to run a business, then you have to obey the law while doing it. Its not a voluntary option.	godfather (25)
444636	2006-04-12 02:38:00	Hello Godfather Thanks for your concern But when I compared both a NZ charger and My Hong Kong Charger the charger has exactly the same specification only the plug is different.Would you still call this different?Only A plug change adaptor is different. I'm not really running a business.I only sell probably 3 mobiles at the most a month. Only sold 2 last month Hmm not earning alot either and people keep telling me to lower my price which I can't.It's the official hong kong mobile price.I can't see any reason why to lower my price If i don't earn anything besides if they check with sony ericsson,nokia hong kong etc (They do speak english) they can surely tell you my mobile is from them	Ninjabear (2948)
444637	2006-04-12 03:14:00	The declaration of compliance will tell you. If you don't have it or if you do have it and it still fails to meet the requirements, simply don't sell the device. Its your money at stake (in the way of fines, penalties and costs, recalls etc). But with a non standard plug, let me assure you its not going to be compliant under any circumstances, sold as a new product. The published guidelines even for seond hand items also clearly state: Plugs - appliances that do not have normal three-pin New Zealand style plugs should be treated with extreme caution as they are generally not designed for use in this country. The number you sell is irrelevant. You are liable under present law for up to a $10,000 fine for each unsafe device sold (plus costs). Therefore you must be able to prove before any sale that each device meets the NZ requirements. Just because it "looks like" a NZ one means nothing without the paperwork to prove it, unless you have both X-ray vision and a full accredited test lab.	godfather (25)
444638	2006-04-12 03:18:00	Once upon a time there was a river called D-Nile and there seem to still be those who live in it Ninjabear - even if you are selling these phones at a loss, you are running a small business because you are trading . This is not a case of you selling your old nokia on trademe . This is a case of you choosing to market a line of phones . That's what matters, the money you are or aren't making is irrelevant . The offer of sale is what draws attention to you . If the pins are wrong for NZ standard wiring, then these chargers do not conform to NZ standards . We are not talking about the personal phone use of a traveller whose phone charger is going to be the wrong pins for most the places (s)he goes . If we were no-one would care . Here we are talking about a device offered for sale by you in this country, to be owned by someone in this country . The pins must be right for the local standards . There must be documentation to say that these chargers conform to NZ standards . . . without it, once you get noticed by the powers that be, your ass will be so whipped . Unless your into pain, it's probably better to stop moving these phones . Let whoever was silly enough to import them take the risk,	personthingy (1670)
444639	2006-04-12 03:49:00	I could say things about shonky Chinese ethics, manufacture of fake products, like fake Rolex, fake fashion labels, fake CDs, copied western text books, ad infinitum.. etc, but no, I'll tell a little story about a shonky Italian firm, some of whom can be as bad as the Chinese. Anyone remember 'Bogap' cng gas cylinders? These had the sales feature of having a larger internal volume for the same weight as other cylinders, ie thinner metal. DSIR were involved in checking these for conformance to standards, but Ministry of Transport as far as I remember had the final say. First up, the taper threads in the cylinder neck were so oversize that the not-go taper thread gauge almost fell inside. The importer persuaded the MOT to have them accepted, despite being rejected by DSIR, so extra thread sealing tape had to be used so the valves didn't screw in too far. Now I'm not saying any back-handers were involved to MOT, but my experience of dealing with Italian firms from the UK would not rule that out by any means :) I met both the Italian firm owners and the importer, I was not the least impressed by those sharks. Somewhat later, we set up for carrying out accelerated fatigue testing by pressure cycling. Bogaps failed miserably, I believe that one Bogap in service failed disastrously....cng at 2000+psi, you can imagine the effect. The Ministry was forced to recall all Bogap cylinders, I don't know what happened to the MOT official who approved their use, I know what I would have liked to have happened to him :) I could also rabbit on about GST, evasion of tax etc.	Terry Porritt (14)
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