Forum Home
PC World Chat
Thread ID: 68100	2006-04-17 06:29:00	Religion in politics	rob_on_guitar (4196)	PC World Chat

Post ID	Timestamp	Content	User
446970	2006-04-20 08:44:00	I proved that there is a True God when I discovered all the false doctrines that existed in the world. Why would there be so much false teaching if there wasn't a reason...the reason being trying to mask the truth. In your post you said this: statement A - god exists statement B - god made the bible let us ASSUME B to be true therefore A is true, because B cannot be true without A to be true that is very poor deduction/logic/reasoning christianity is proven by historians and archeoligists to have emerged from judism. the existence of a book, present in many different "false" versions does not indicate the presence of a supernatural being. furthermore, if god left a book to tell us he existed, why did he let us munt it? also, how do we know which one is the truth. the modification by human individuals also explains the multiple versions. (and i knew this argument would happen)	motorbyclist (188)
446971	2006-04-20 09:16:00	O for god's sake religion is twaddle. Get over it How long's it going to take?	mark c (247)
446972	2006-04-20 10:32:00	I don't really want to poke my oar in again, but can I remind all "christians" in this thread that Christianity is: 1) A minor religion on this planet. 2) A Johnny Come Lately, being only about 2050 years old. 3) The Bibles (yes folks, there are as many varieties as there are theologians) are the work of man, written in his image, not the ethereal "His" and subject to the prejudices and bigotry of the ages. 4) Responsible for more misery and suffering on this planet than any true God (if such existed) would ever countenance in his name. 5) If there is but one true God, there are sure as hell going to be a lot of very disappointed folk out there when the big shakedown comes. 6) All attempts to justify religion and its attendant evils eventually come down to a requirement for blind unquestioning faith, even from those who truly believe that they have successfully rationalised their faith and their beliefs. Sorry SJ, but no amount of preaching could ever begin to justify the ills and evils forced upon the populace of this planet in the name of Gods various. Cheers Billy 8-{)	Billy T (70)
446973	2006-04-20 11:53:00	I don't really want to poke my oar in again... Cheers Billy 8-{) i concur	motorbyclist (188)
446974	2006-04-20 15:57:00	BillY_T... "4) Responsible for more misery and suffering on this planet than any true God (if such existed) would ever countenance in his name.".................God allows each one to be a free moral agent...belief is not mandatory, and misery and suffering are not from God, but from demons who confuse people to make it look like God's outworkings. "5) If there is but one true God, there are sure as hell going to be a lot of very disappointed folk out there when the big shakedown comes."...YUP! Since the whole world is lying in the power of wickedness, and faith is what you need that the Bible's prophesies will come true, just make sure that you make the decision yourself about the Bible, God and where all the misery and death comes from. You were not meant to die, and flamboyant ignorance of the truth will not protect you.	SurferJoe46 (51)
446975	2006-04-20 22:37:00	BillY_T . . . 4) Responsible for more misery and suffering on this planet than any true God (if such existed) would ever countenance in his name . " . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . God allows each one to be a free moral agent . . . belief is not mandatory, and misery and suffering are not from God, but from demons who confuse people to make it look like God's outworkings . Not surprisingly, you missed the point SJ . Is this the benevolent, munificent god (intentional l . c . g) that loved and loves us all so much that he sacrificed his only begotten son etc etc? Just checking, because if he can't protect us from demons then we are all pretty much doomed . I don't know anybody who hasn't succumbed to the blandishments of a demon or two, no matter how godly they might be . Innumerable catholic priests come to mind, or the Mexican priest who just murdered and dismembered his pregnant girlfriend . That's some demon! "5) If there is but one true God, there are sure as hell going to be a lot of very disappointed folk out there when the big shakedown comes . " . . . YUP! Likewise, are you saying that despite being a very late starter, and a minority group that disenchants or disenfranchises so many believers per year that its churches (overall) are losing members faster than they can convert replacements; christianity is the one true way and followers of Islamism, Buddhism, Hinduism and the rest will be condemned to the eternal fires? Christianity holds around one third of the world's godliness market, about 15% are theists of one sort or another, so the other 52% are islamists, buddhists, hinduists etc . Leaving out the theists, this means that 39% of the world's "believing" populace adhere to the christian image of god, and 61% believe in an alternative deity . So, if I read you correctly, you are saying that the 61% are automatically doomed to the fires of a "christian" hell, while whatever proportion of the 39% christianity adherents manage to pass judgement day will be the favoured few to inhabit eternity? To me that sounds like a god of pig-headed prejudice and wrath, not love, and it's definitely not the sort of odds or theology that would induce me to believe in anything other than the innate goodness of mankind, flawed as we may be . An omnipotent God of love should be able to sort that out in a trice, not just stand back and watch his greatest creation go down the gurgler because of conflicting ideologies . To come to the end of your natural lifespan knowing that you never intentionally cause any person harm, having loved and been loved, and knowing your contribution to society exceeded your flaws is about as close to a heaven as any of us will ever get . Immortality is much easier to achieve . Every one of us carries the genes of every forebear who ever lived on this planet, they (and we, provided we have children who reproduce at least once) will live on eternally until the last human dies . That's my perspective anyway, and it rests very comfortably with me . I am also comfortable with the beliefs of others (except perhaps the rampant lust of Islamic martyrs and their promised harem of virgins), but enjoy the odd debate . Cheers Billy 8-{)	Billy T (70)
446976	2006-04-20 23:19:00	Not surprisingly, you missed the point SJ . Is this the benevolent, munificent god (intentional l . c . g) that loved and loves us all so much that he sacrificed his only begotten son etc etc? Just checking, because if he can't protect us from demons then we are all pretty much doomed . I don't know anybody who hasn't succumbed to the blandishments of a demon or two, no matter how godly they might be . Innumerable catholic priests come to mind, or the Mexican priest who just murdered and dismembered his pregnant girlfriend . That's some demon! Likewise, are you saying that despite being a very late starter, and a minority group that disenchants or disenfranchises so many believers per year that its churches (overall) are losing members faster than they can convert replacements; christianity is the one true way and followers of Islamism, Buddhism, Hinduism and the rest will be condemned to the eternal fires? Christianity holds around one third of the world's godliness market, about 15% are theists of one sort or another, so the other 52% are islamists, buddhists, hinduists etc . Leaving out the theists, this means that 39% of the world's "believing" populace adhere to the christian image of god, and 61% believe in an alternative deity . So, if I read you correctly, you are saying that the 61% are automatically doomed to the fires of a "christian" hell, while whatever proportion of the 39% christianity adherents manage to pass judgement day will be the favoured few to inhabit eternity? To me that sounds like a god of pig-headed prejudice and wrath, not love, and it's definitely not the sort of odds or theology that would induce me to believe in anything other than the innate goodness of mankind, flawed as we may be . An omnipotent God of love should be able to sort that out in a trice, not just stand back and watch his greatest creation go down the gurgler because of conflicting ideologies . To come to the end of your natural lifespan knowing that you never intentionally cause any person harm, having loved and been loved, and knowing your contribution to society exceeded your flaws is about as close to a heaven as any of us will ever get . Immortality is much easier to achieve . Every one of us carries the genes of every forebear who ever lived on this planet, they (and we, provided we have children who reproduce at least once) will live on eternally until the last human dies . That's my perspective anyway, and it rests very comfortably with me . I am also comfortable with the beliefs of others (except perhaps the rampant lust of Islamic martyrs and their promised harem of virgins), but enjoy the odd debate . Cheers Billy 8-{) Well . . . 1st, tell me where you find a fiery hell in the scriptures that was not added by the RCC or the apostacy during the 1st century after Christ died . . . the "church" was totally morally and spiritually berift by that time and had fallen into a state of letting anything come into the "faith" . . . icons; trinity; holy days of obligation; prayer beads and pagan holidays like Saturnalia (Sun worship . . . Easter sunrise services ring a bell?) fertility rites, worshiping the moon and stars and the earth and passing of the seasons; animal blessings;, blessings thru simony and a papacy that was totally without spiritual direction . License to murder and maim by godless decree via the new state-approved status and military backing burned quite a few heratics and non-believers . The threat of the eternal hell-fire (which one could feel and see as people screamed and anguished at the stake), pouring molten lead down the throats of "godless ones" in the name of "god (small g there)) . . . all in the name of holiness . This is not the action of a god . . . but a monster . These are some of the things that people find cold and cruel and they blame god for it . . . but that's not the case . . . . . it's corruption that causes all this religious hate and discontent . Yet still, the people put money in the collection plates, confess on Saturday, eat the cookie and drink the wine on Sunday and go about doing what they did last week all over again to repeat the cycle all over again . I was one, I know what a sham it was and still is . I don't blame anyone for feeling like they have been had by religion . . . it's a fraud and a racket . If there is ANY apostate activity in whatever house of worship these people attend, and they keep on attending, then they are fooling themselves . Judge the tree by it's fruits . . . bad trees do not bear good fruit . . . and good trees do not bear bad fruit . I like one of the lines in MIB: "A person is smart; People are stupid" . A person can find understanding in the Bible . . they just have to make sure they compare their lifestyle with it and correct it accordingly . Sheer numbers of co-committants (religionists) do not make the truth . . . . in fact Jesus said the actual number of people finding the truth would be few . . . . most would not get it and others like having their ears tickled by priests, bishops, popes, clergy and fraudsters . Satan promises eternal fire and pain; God does not . Satan promises "all good people go to heaven"; God does not . So-called Christians say "I know Jesus, therefor I am saved" . Satan knows Jesus too . . . . . what good's it gonna do for him?	SurferJoe46 (51)
446977	2006-04-21 00:43:00	Funnily enough I agree with both Billy and Joe . I don't have any difficulty accepting the teachings of the Bible but also recognise that other religions have a place . And I also recognise that humanists (agnostics/athiests) are every bit as decent as religionists . Back to the point - religion and politics: In my callow youth I thought this was the ideal comination . I travelled in Islamic countries and marvelled at how Islam was embedded in the people's lives totally . All laws came from the Koran and the Hadith . Government and religion were fused as one . Time went by and I began to see the flaws in this system of government . Laws were inflexible, or instead were interpreted inconsistantly depending upon whether you were male or female, or which particular state you were living in . Ultimately I've come to the reluctant view, as wiser heads did centuries ago, that there needs to be separation of church and state . Secular democratic government is the safest option . That doesn't prevent individuals following their own religious paths but they cannot impose their beliefs on others . The only religious state I know of which appears to work is Israel - and it is pretty secular in reality .	Winston001 (3612)
446978	2006-04-21 00:55:00	Well . . . 1st, tell me w blah blah blah . . . d's it gonna do for him? if the holy scriptures have been altered so heavily, how do you know what in there is actually god word? if any? i admire your sensible dissapproval of the church(es), but still dont think you are really thinking about what we're saying . if He exists why let us hurt one another? sure WE do it, but why not smite us on the spot? Epicurus - Ancient Greek philosopher who was the founder of Epicureanism, one of the most popular schools of Hellenistic Philosophy . "Is God willing to prevent evil, but not able? Then he is not omnipotent . Is he able, but not willing? Then he is malevolent . Is he both able and willing? Then whence cometh evil? Is he neither able nor willing? Then why call him God?" also your proof of god, which i disproved, need some work, BUT how are we going to prove/disprove the existence of a being who's only claimed action was that of creation only mentioned in the corrupted bible, which is pretty much completely proved false by bigbang/evolution which DOES HAVE SOLID, PHYSICAL PROOF . why would a god leave all this evidence of his non-existence? perhaps he exists but doesnt want us to know? as far as we are concerned, there is no actual need for someone who does nothing, especially if monstrosities are carried out in His name . i seem to manage fine without god, i havent assaulted/killed anyone, i'm an independant human being who's common sense keeps me out of moral difficulty . . . . as the bhudda said "hell is in ones own mind" (i think those were the words) Dan Barker - Former clergyman, author of 'Losing Faith in Faith' "You are an intelligent human being . Your life is valuable for its own sake . You are not second-class in the universe, deriving meaning and purpose from some other mind . You are not inherently evil -- you are inherently human, possessing the positive rational potential to help make this a world of morality, peace and joy . Trust yourself . " Seth Green - actor "The Onion: Is there a God? Seth Green: Is there a God? It really depends on what religion you subscribe to . O: Oh, man, that's cheap . Everyone else was like, "I don't know . Maybe . " SG: God is, to me, pretty much an idea . God is, to me, pretty much a myth created over time to deny the idea that we're all responsible for our own actions . and some more quotes from here ( . blogspot . com/2005/12/company-we-keep-part-2 . html" target="_blank">memeescape . blogspot . com) Benjamin Franklin - Inventor, Foundating Father "The way to see by faith is to shut the eye of reason . " "Lighthouses are more helpful than churches . " Ulysses S . Grant -18th President of the United States "Leave the matter of religion to the family altar, the church, and the private schools, supported entirely by private contributions . Keep the church and the state forever separated . " James Madison - 4th American president and political theorist . "In no instance have . . . the churches been guardians of the liberties of the people . "	motorbyclist (188)
446979	2006-04-21 00:56:00	Funnily enough I agree with both Billy and Joe. I don't have any difficulty accepting the teachings of the Bible but also recognise that oth.......The only religious state I know of which appears to work is Israel - and it is pretty secular in reality. very true, and actually to the point! lol	motorbyclist (188)
1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10