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Thread ID: 68014	2006-04-14 03:37:00	UK RAF Doctor.	Poppa John (284)	PC World Chat

Post ID	Timestamp	Content	User
446217	2006-04-14 06:56:00	Metla is right, pctek and Sue are being unrealistically idealistic. This is the real world we are living in. We may not agree with George W Bush, hell I don't, neither do I agree with the way the Americans have waged war in Iraq. Now they have Pentagon contingency scenario plans for nuking Iran. But if the population of Britain had gone along with the resolution of the students at the Oxford Union debate of 1934 that "this House will in no circumstances fight for King and Country", then we would be all speaking German now, New Zealanders included. Indeed that is what Hitler pretty well thought, and he was not disillusioned by the antics of Chamberlain. Many people myself included consider the Iraq war to be illegal, and the reasons given by Bush and Blair to be quite deliberately false. As Ben Griffon said in the TV3 interview, the American soldiers there believed Iraq was behind the 9/11 attack, even that Osama Bin Laden would be found there. He said the Americans regarded the Iraqis as lesser second class people, much like the pre-war Germans regarded Jews as "Untermenchen", or "sub-creatures". Things have not changed much, Germans at Nürnberg pleaded they only followed orders. Whether International Law carries any validity or not depends upon whether it coincides with American interest. The judge at the court marshall, in my view, cleverly evaded the real issues by declaring that discussion of legality/illegality of the Iraq war would not be allowed. I wonder how much political pressure he was under. In any other country we'd say he was a puppet of the government. I know I'm not being consistent, but it is a difficult situation.	Terry Porritt (14)
446218	2006-04-14 08:23:00	I see he has got 7 months jail and booted out of the RAF. Trevor :)	Trev (427)
446219	2006-04-14 08:50:00	These people a killing themselves at an alarming rate,one sect against the other,how do you win the hearts and minds of this lot. These minds believe all that tripe re virgins. If there is an answer with muslims,do post it. The link below will take you to Riverbends blog. Her blog on Iraq has been nominated for a major literary award for her Internet blog account of the war on ordinary Iraqi people. Go down to Friday November 25, 2005, then to 3rd or 4th paragraph down to get her reasoning on it. here (http://www.riverbendblog.blogspot.com/) Also, on Monday, March 06, 2006, she did a humorous take on the Oscars, using Bush and his cronies, also Iraqi govt ministers. I enjoyed it but may not be everyone's cup of tea. They keep linking that RAF doctor to NZ, but I see he was born in Aussi. Obviously, the Aussi's are letting us keep that one, but hanging on to our pavlova's. :D I think he has got off very lightly. Regardless of the war being illegal, he should at least go over to support the British soldiers who have endured so much. Since he has been back, has he helped or visited the wounded British soldiers and their families? But from what I've read, the British government and ministers haven't done anything for these guys either.	MMM (5660)
446220	2006-04-14 09:00:00	While I can respect his views, he has to take the consequences. Refusing to serve - I thought he'd get 5 years. If he was on active service, it would be a capital offence. Can't have soldiers, even doctors, deciding when and where they'll work. And let's be clear - being a military doctor in Iraq is about as far from Auschwicz as you could get.	Winston001 (3612)
446221	2006-04-14 09:12:00	Metla is right, pctek and Sue are being unrealistically idealistic. This is the real world we are living in. Right on. I too have "doubts about the genuineness of this guy". The judge said something to the effect that he was arrogant, making a martyr of himself, grandstanding, etc. He obviously knew his actions were going to make international news. When he gets out of the clink he will probably write a book and going on speaking tours, raking in lots of $$$ and getting lots of pats on the backs from idealistic liberals. The Yanks have made a mess of Iraq. Sadam had to go, the regime needed to go. A new form of government was needed. But the American methods are awful. It stinks. But for Flight Lt. Malcolm Kendall-Smith (story here) (www.latimes.com) to equate the Yanks with the Nazis is preposterous. They should fill his cell with WW2 history books.	Strommer (42)
446222	2006-04-14 09:20:00	As Ben Griffon said in the TV3 interview, the American soldiers there believed Iraq was behind the 9/11 attack, even that Osama Bin Laden would be found there . And whose fault is that? I'd suggest its both the American news media and the people themselves . The rest of the world knew the links were tenuous at best, as did plenty of American academics but they didn't get news coverage . He said the Americans regarded the Iraqis as lesser second class people, much like the pre-war Germans regarded Jews as "Untermenchen", or "sub-creatures" . And this attitude is another example of the woeful isolationism of the average American . If it didn't happen within the US of A, it is of no interest . Which is why Americans are still bewildered about 9/11 . They really don't know sod all about the rest of the world . I agree with you totally Terry, about winning the hearts and minds . That's the only way the soldiers can succeed in Iraq - and respecting the local people is critical . Damned hard though, given that any local encountered could be a bomber .	Winston001 (3612)
446223	2006-04-14 09:43:00	Another problem is that Americans are generaly overly religious - christianity is hammered into them at every significant moment in their life. A lot of Iraqis don't agree with christianity, and a lot of the soldiers over there think that christianity is the only way. That is bound to cause friction.	Greven (91)
446224	2006-04-14 10:04:00	Another problem is that Americans are generaly overly religious - christianity is hammered into them at every significant moment in their life . Nowhere near as much as with the Italians, the French, and the Irish . A lot of Iraqis don't agree with christianity, and a lot of the soldiers over there think that christianity is the only way . That is bound to cause friction . Good point . Religious intolerance on both sides certainly won't help .	Winston001 (3612)
446225	2006-04-14 10:38:00	I can see the answer coming from the above,hang on,yes the light is shining,here it comes,oooh it's beautiful,,,thank you all.	Cicero (40)
446226	2006-04-14 20:48:00	If enough German soldiers had stood up and said NO . There wouldn't have been the Gas Chambers etc . We all have a part to play, if you believe something is wrong darn well say so . Men or mice? Blindly following orders against your own conscience & by doing so increasing the Huge armament company's shareholders profits is not and never has been the best option .	Sue (33)
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